[WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
Chris Moore
chrism at cmd-law.com
Mon Jul 25 14:34:34 PDT 2016
I have a question regarding the actual recording procedure following SHB
2539.
For example; Trustor dies and trust terminates, which triggers a Trustee’s
deed to beneficiary. We are now required to submit three separate
documents to the treasurer along with the Excise Tax form: 1) Trustee’s
Deed; 2) Death Certificate; and 3) pertinent pages of the Trust. Has
anyone had experience with the recorder’s office in this situation? Do we
need to record 3 separate documents for 3 separate fees? Is this a statute
to clarify excise tax procedures or to raise recording revenue?
Sincerely,
*Chris J. Moore*
Christopher J. Moore, JD, CPA (Inactive), AEP®, EPLS*
Creason, Moore, Dokken & Geidl, PLLC
Lawyers
1219 Idaho Street, POB 835
Lewiston, Idaho 83501-0835
Phone: 208-743-1516; Fax: 208-746-2231
Website: www.cmd-law.com
*Certified as an Estate Planning Law Specialist by the Estate Law
Specialist Board, Inc., the only estate planning certification entity
approved by both the American Bar Association and the Idaho State Bar
Association.
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*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:
wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *Douglas Bratt
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:53 PM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
I was referring to subsection (2) of RCW 82.45.197, which states:
“(2)
The documentation provided to the county treasurer under this section must
also be recorded with the county auditor.”
As to transfer via a trust, subsection (1)(b) states:
“If the property is being transferred under the terms of a trust
instrument, a certified copy of the death certificate and a copy of that
portion of the trust instrument showing the authority of the grantor;”
So, it appears to me that the entirety of the Trust Instrument need not be
recorded. Banks, when establishing accounts for trusts, normally ask for
the title page, the page on which the Trustee is appointed, and the
signature page, not the entirety of the Trust. I would think that the same
pages of a trust would suffice as the additional documentation to be
recorded when a Trustee’s Deed is being recorded.
But, it seems clear that anything referenced in RCW 82.45.197 (1) needs to
be recorded, per subsection (2) of that statute.
Doug Bratt
*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>]
*On Behalf Of *James B. Dolan
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:32 AM
*To:* 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of
LT [text]
I am not reading 82.45.197 quite that way. I see that the *CPA* must be
recorded, which has always been true. I see *certified* Letters and
certified Certificate of Death, or certified court order are now required –
not necessarily recorded???
Am I missing something, perhaps a reference to another statute? If so, I
am surprised that a trust would need to be recorded, as one reason some
folks have for establishing a trust is to avoid publication or filing.
Jim Dolan
===================
*Jones Butler Dolan, PS*
www.jbdolan.com
www.jonesbutlerdolan.com
*Mount Vernon*
P.O. Box 2784
415 Pine Street
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Telephone: 360-336-2939
Facsimile: 360-336-2949
*Stanwood*
P.O. Box 458
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Stanwood, WA 98292
Telephone: 360-629-3833
Facsimile: 360-629-6253
*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>]
*On Behalf Of *Douglas Bratt
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:12 AM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
A review of the statute cited by Mike, RCW 82.45.197, indicates that the
documents required to be presented to the Treasurer also *must be recorded*
with the Auditor, presumably to be included in a packet with whatever is
being recorded. In this case, both the Personal Representative’s Deed and
the certified copy of the Letters Testamentary or Letters of Administration
will have to be recorded. This will require a bit more detail on the
Auditor’s Cover Sheet.
This will also encourage a bit of pre-planning if one is to avoid a trip to
the Clerk’s Office in order to obtain another Certified Copy of the Letters
Testamentary or Letters of Administration when it is time to record a PR
Deed. I generally simply obtain two certified copies of the Letters and
give them both to the client, after scanning the Letters for my file copy.
I tell the client to allow folks to copy the Letters, if they wish, but not
to give the Letters up, unless absolutely required. The second certified
copy of the Letters to the client is a bit of insurance for the client in
case he/she has had to give up one certified copy of the Letters. However,
if one anticipates that there will be a PR Deed to an heir, later in the
case, better practice would be to obtain the additional certified copy for
that purpose, when the Letters are first issued. Saves time, hassle, and
fees charged to client, it seems to me, for just one additional payment of
$5.00.
Doug Bratt
Douglas J. Bratt
Lawyer
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*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>]
*On Behalf Of *Mike Winslow
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:13 AM
*To:* 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
See RCW 82.45.197.
Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com
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*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>]
*On Behalf Of *Paul Neumiller
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:17 AM
*To:* 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
Marcia, do you have the cite for the “law passed last month”?
*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>]
*On Behalf Of *Marcia Mellinger
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2016 5:52 PM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
We used to send a copy of the certified Letters Testamentary when recording
the deeds distributing properties to heirs. With the law passed last
month, we now need to send an original certified copy of the LTs.
Had this bounce back and don't want it to happen to you. Best, Marcia
------------------------------
From: Kbrink at vjglaw.com
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:25:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Getting deceased husband off the deed
*I was hoping you would weigh in on this, John McCrady from Puget Sound
Title.*
*Thank you – and to everyone for all the good ideas!*
*Best regards,*
*Kerry E. Brink*
*Kerry E. Brink **• **Attorney*
*Estate Planning, Probate, Elder Law*
*____________________________________**Vandeberg Johnson & Gandara, LLP*
*PO Box 1315*
*1201 Pacific Ave Suite 1900*
*Tacoma, WA 98401-1315*
*www.vjglaw.com* <http://www.vjglaw.com/>
*kbrink at vjglaw.com* <kbrink at vjglaw.com>
(*Phone*: *253.383.3791 *
*7**Fax*: *253.383.6377 *
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*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>]
*On Behalf Of *John McCrady
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2016 3:01 PM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Getting deceased husband off the deed
This is true, but don’t forget the new rules requiring the recording of
both a lack of probate affidavit and of a death certificate.
The recorded LOP affidavit can be found at the Department of Revenue web
site, but for convenience I have attached a copy
John McCrady
Counsel
Puget Sound Title Company
5350 Orchard Street West
University Place WA 98466
253-476-5721
*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>]
*On Behalf Of *Jay Goldstein
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2016 2:35 PM
*To:* 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Getting deceased husband off the deed
Ask your local title company about Lack of Probate Affidavit.
Title company may be willing to insure title with this.
J
Jay A. Goldstein
[image: cid:AEF18ED8-6AEE-403C-99E7-30A379E62D84 at local]
1800 Cooper Point RD SW NO. 8 | Olympia, WA 98502
Telephone 360.352.1970 | Fax 360.357.0844 | www.jaglaw.net
jay at jaglaw.net
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*From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>]
*On Behalf Of *Christopher Small
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2016 2:21 PM
*To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
*Subject:* [WSBAPT] Getting deceased husband off the deed
Have a question to what is likely a common problem, I just haven't dealt
with it yet.
Husband and wife own property. Husband dies with no will and no other
assets.
Years later wife is trying to transfer property to son and county won't
allow it because husband is still on the deed.
I'm getting a copy of the deed to make sure the property wasn't held in an
unusual way, but assuming the property was held jointly as it normally is
in the state, any ideas on how to get husband off the title?
Thank you for your help.
Cheers,
Christopher Small
CMS Law Firm LLC <http://cmslawfirm.com>
150 Lake St., Suite 227
Kirkland, WA 98033
206.659.1512
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