[WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
Douglas Bratt
djbratt at mbavancouverlaw.com
Wed Jul 20 15:52:26 PDT 2016
Mike - I completely agree. All that the statute requires viz-a-viz a Trustee's Deed is:
"......a copy of that portion of the trust instrument showing the authority of the grantor."
No need for the entire trust at all.
Doug Bratt
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 2:53 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
Yes, but I still don't think the Treasurer can compel recording of the entire trust, if we offer a certificate of trust.
Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com<mailto:Mike at winslegal.com>
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of James B. Dolan
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 2:30 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
Ooops, my mistake, did not see the newer version from SHB 2539.
Thanks,
-jbd-
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Bratt
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:53 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
I was referring to subsection (2) of RCW 82.45.197, which states:
"(2)
The documentation provided to the county treasurer under this section must also be recorded with the county auditor."
As to transfer via a trust, subsection (1)(b) states:
"If the property is being transferred under the terms of a trust instrument, a certified copy of the death certificate and a copy of that portion of the trust instrument showing the authority of the grantor;"
So, it appears to me that the entirety of the Trust Instrument need not be recorded. Banks, when establishing accounts for trusts, normally ask for the title page, the page on which the Trustee is appointed, and the signature page, not the entirety of the Trust. I would think that the same pages of a trust would suffice as the additional documentation to be recorded when a Trustee's Deed is being recorded.
But, it seems clear that anything referenced in RCW 82.45.197 (1) needs to be recorded, per subsection (2) of that statute.
Doug Bratt
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of James B. Dolan
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:32 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT [text]
I am not reading 82.45.197 quite that way. I see that the CPA must be recorded, which has always been true. I see certified Letters and certified Certificate of Death, or certified court order are now required - not necessarily recorded???
Am I missing something, perhaps a reference to another statute? If so, I am surprised that a trust would need to be recorded, as one reason some folks have for establishing a trust is to avoid publication or filing.
Jim Dolan
===================
Jones Butler Dolan, PS
www.jbdolan.com<http://www.jbdolan.com>
www.jonesbutlerdolan.com<http://www.jonesbutlerdolan.com>
Mount Vernon
P.O. Box 2784
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Mount Vernon, WA 98273
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Bratt
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:12 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
A review of the statute cited by Mike, RCW 82.45.197, indicates that the documents required to be presented to the Treasurer also must be recorded with the Auditor, presumably to be included in a packet with whatever is being recorded. In this case, both the Personal Representative's Deed and the certified copy of the Letters Testamentary or Letters of Administration will have to be recorded. This will require a bit more detail on the Auditor's Cover Sheet.
This will also encourage a bit of pre-planning if one is to avoid a trip to the Clerk's Office in order to obtain another Certified Copy of the Letters Testamentary or Letters of Administration when it is time to record a PR Deed. I generally simply obtain two certified copies of the Letters and give them both to the client, after scanning the Letters for my file copy. I tell the client to allow folks to copy the Letters, if they wish, but not to give the Letters up, unless absolutely required. The second certified copy of the Letters to the client is a bit of insurance for the client in case he/she has had to give up one certified copy of the Letters. However, if one anticipates that there will be a PR Deed to an heir, later in the case, better practice would be to obtain the additional certified copy for that purpose, when the Letters are first issued. Saves time, hassle, and fees charged to client, it seems to me, for just one additional payment of $5.00.
Doug Bratt
Douglas J. Bratt
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:13 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
See RCW 82.45.197.
Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321
Em. Mike at winslegal.com<mailto:Mike at winslegal.com>
This message is from an attorney, so it's confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it's too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:17 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
Marcia, do you have the cite for the "law passed last month"?
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Marcia Mellinger
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 5:52 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Personal Rep deed distributing needs cert copy of LT
We used to send a copy of the certified Letters Testamentary when recording the deeds distributing properties to heirs. With the law passed last month, we now need to send an original certified copy of the LTs.
Had this bounce back and don't want it to happen to you. Best, Marcia
________________________________
From: Kbrink at vjglaw.com<mailto:Kbrink at vjglaw.com>
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:25:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Getting deceased husband off the deed
I was hoping you would weigh in on this, John McCrady from Puget Sound Title.
Thank you - and to everyone for all the good ideas!
Best regards,
Kerry E. Brink
Kerry E. Brink * Attorney
Estate Planning, Probate, Elder Law
____________________________________
Vandeberg Johnson & Gandara, LLP
PO Box 1315
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of John McCrady
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 3:01 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Getting deceased husband off the deed
This is true, but don't forget the new rules requiring the recording of both a lack of probate affidavit and of a death certificate.
The recorded LOP affidavit can be found at the Department of Revenue web site, but for convenience I have attached a copy
John McCrady
Counsel
Puget Sound Title Company
5350 Orchard Street West
University Place WA 98466
253-476-5721
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jay Goldstein
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 2:35 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Getting deceased husband off the deed
Ask your local title company about Lack of Probate Affidavit.
Title company may be willing to insure title with this.
J
Jay A. Goldstein
[cid:AEF18ED8-6AEE-403C-99E7-30A379E62D84 at local]
1800 Cooper Point RD SW NO. 8 | Olympia, WA 98502
Telephone 360.352.1970 | Fax 360.357.0844 | www.jaglaw.net<http://www.jaglaw.net/>
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Small
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 2:21 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Getting deceased husband off the deed
Have a question to what is likely a common problem, I just haven't dealt with it yet.
Husband and wife own property. Husband dies with no will and no other assets.
Years later wife is trying to transfer property to son and county won't allow it because husband is still on the deed.
I'm getting a copy of the deed to make sure the property wasn't held in an unusual way, but assuming the property was held jointly as it normally is in the state, any ideas on how to get husband off the title?
Thank you for your help.
Cheers,
Christopher Small
CMS Law Firm LLC<http://cmslawfirm.com>
150 Lake St., Suite 227
Kirkland, WA 98033
206.659.1512
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