[Vision2020] Victims and Perpetrators

Mon Aug 3 11:55:29 PDT 2015

Tom wrote:

“No.  I do not consider fetuses to be children . . . and strongly support the continued legalization of abortion as a final option.”

Exactly – and that’s why Gary wasn’t due an apology.  The number of legal abortions doesn’t relate to “children” as Gary wants us to believe.

Further, equating the number of abortions to the murder of living Jews is beyond offensive, no matter how many times the anti-choice – and therefore anti-Constitution and anti-science  – fringe try to make the argument.

Finally, I’d be remiss if I didn’t also mention the disturbing irony of those anti-choice anti-Constitution anti-science people getting their undies in a twist about reproductive freedom while not giving a rip about already born children.  The majority of that crowd is also all for telling the government to keep its nose out of “parental” decisions about things like physical abuse, sex abuse, medical treatment . . . and being kept out of the clutches of serial pedophiles who happen to procreate to grow their own victims.

Forcing women to be mandatory breeders doesn’t infringe on “parental” decisions, but laws protecting living breathing already born children -- protections that make them more than mere chattel property -- do.

What a load.

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

Compassion is the basis of all morality.

~ Arthur Schopenhuaer

From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2015 4:54 PM
To: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Victims and Perpetrators

My argument did not concern criminalizing/legalization of abortion.  My argument concerned the amount of abortions performed.  My apology was made after I researched and realized that there had been more than 54 million abortions performed since Roe v. Wade in 1973 (a claim made by Mr. Crabtree, although citing a lame source). 

No.  I do not consider fetuses to be children . . . and strongly support the continued legalization of abortion as a final option.

I thought you knew me better than that, Saundra.  Everybody else on the Viz does.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Aug 2, 2015, at 4:38 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> > wrote:

ROTFLMAO – leave it to Gary to try to incorrectly insist that fetuses are “children,” which was his initial claim, an assertion not even his own links  make.

Tom, I’d take back your apology, unless you share the notion that a fetus is something other than a fetus or potential child.  And, if a fetus is a child, then the biggest abortionist of all time is none other than God.

Saundra

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>  [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Gary Crabtree
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2015 4:29 PM
To: Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com <mailto:moscowcares at moscow.com> >
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> ; bmerkle at nsa.edu <mailto:bmerkle at nsa.edu> 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Victims and Perpetrators

Actually I offered up three different sources. The one you are referring to is the first where by Politifact verifies Rep. Smiths assertion. Politifact is not noted for a conservative or pro life bent. If you had read the piece, you would know what sources and studies they used to arrive at their conclusion. Should you then find that it fails to satisfy your stringent requirements for documentation you will have to simply imagine my deep and bitter disappointment.

g

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com <mailto:moscowcares at moscow.com> > wrote:

That is NOT substantiation, Mr. Crabtree.  You simply echoed an unsubstantiated claim made by Rep. Christopher Smith (R-NJ).  Substantiation generally includes a citable source . . . not simply because somebody said so.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Aug 2, 2015, at 2:42 PM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com <mailto:moscowlocksmith at gmail.com> > wrote:

http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/mar/18/chris-smith/chris-smith-says-more-54-million-abortions-have-be/

http://www.crescentcitytimes.com/?p=12253

http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130126/AGGREGATION/130129300/0/NEWS0603

Need more?

g

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com <mailto:moscowcares at moscow.com> > wrote:

Mr . Crabtree-

Care to share substantiation for you claim of " . . . 54,000,000 plus children".  Or is this simply more hot air?

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Aug 2, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com <mailto:moscowlocksmith at gmail.com> > wrote:

54,000,000 plus children

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