[Vision2020] violent society
rhayes at frontier.com
rhayes at frontier.com
Tue Dec 16 17:17:14 PST 2014
I read the posts of people who defend police violence with disdain. The arguments which delve into the intricacies of who did what ignore the larger, sad picture. We live in a violent society which, whether you admit it or not, has a long, long history of organized, state sanctioned violence against minority people. It really saddens me to think I might have a student who someday could be shot dead, strangled, or just blown away because of stealing a cigar, or selling untaxed cigarettes, playing with a fake gun in a park, or walking down the stairs of their apartment all due to looking suspicious. We need to take a look at our morals...all of us. A grand jury is not a trial. It's job is to determine if an indictment is warranted. A trial should have taken place. Justice would have been served.
While I live in Moscow, thank goodness, it doesn't mean we are immune to or exempt from considering that our nation is not free from this institutional apartheid. This is a national tragedy, and sad travesty.
Roger Hayes
From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 4:54 PM
Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 102, Issue 100
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it' (Darrell Keim)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 16:54:32 -0800
From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it'
Message-ID:
<CAE4+uhzeT9sw9JityUJNmP99ME=r5iDfebGwzZ_WM2A7zgx3_g at mail.gmail.com>
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Good Gawd, I hope not! I don't know anything about trains and church
organs. Which was my point...
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> ...
> I am just as certain that if there should be conversations concerning
> railroad operations or church organ music, here on the Viz, your
> reflections would be eagerly welcome.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That's right, Mr. Dredge! Can't question expertise like Mr. Hansen's.
>
> My Dad retired from a railroad and my Mom plays the organ at church. I am
> now qualified to conduct BOTH.
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>> No, Mr. Dredge, I would NOT have considered it an "action of disrespect"
>> . . . If crime scene investigator had responded IMMEDIATELY!
>>
>> FYI, Mr. Dredge: My father was a member of the LAPD (Los Angeles Police
>> Department) for 36 (thirty-six) years. This is not foreign to me, ok?
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>
>> - John Lennon
>>
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> To expand on the point of ?It really is a double-edged sword,? had the
>> body been moved sooner, Mr. Hansen would still be claiming this to be an
>> action of disrespect and that the crime scene wasn't processed properly.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>> To: thansen at moscow.com; paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:06:21 -0700
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it'
>>
>> Mr. Hansen writes:
>> <Another question that NEEDS an answer: Why did Brown's body lay dead on
>> the ground . . . untouched . . for four hours . . . after the police
>> officer shot and killed,him?>
>>
>> The article you linked to does a pretty good job answering that question
>> by providing a number of reasons:
>>
>>
>> 1. This shooting was on a Saturday, with a skeleton crew on duty and
>> an earlier incident miles away that delayed detectives from getting to
>> Ferguson.
>> 2. Jackson and others said the scene was so chaotic that there were
>> moments when they didn?t know if they were going to get out without getting
>> hurt or hurting someone else.
>> 3. Several medical examiners and coroner officials from across the
>> country said every crime scene is different. Some take all day to process.
>> 4. ?Sometimes it?s a little disconcerting in an open scene for the
>> family to see a body lying there,? said Dave R. Fowler, chief medical
>> examiner in Baltimore. ?But this is not ?CSI.??
>> 5. The best way to serve the public and the victim?s family is to do
>> your job properly, they all said, and get as close to the truth as possible.
>> 6. There are absolutes in police work, Belmar said in an interview
>> Friday. Protect the crime scene. Investigate thoroughly. ?What would we
>> have gained by taking pictures of Mr. Brown?s body and simply getting him
>> out of there as fast as we could?? Belmar asked. ?... It might have moved
>> (the timeline) up an hour and a half.?
>> 7. Or would that have left the grand jury ? convening now on this
>> case ? without the benefit of a thorough crime scene investigation? ?It
>> really is a double-edged sword,? Belmar said.
>>
>>
>>
>> The article also concedes that the reasons listed above don't matter
>> because the headline of 'white cop kills black man' trumps all else:
>>
>>
>> 1. But for many in Ferguson, none of that will matter. Regardless of
>> the evidence, the experts, the gunshots and the crowds, a young man?s body
>> left on the street for four hours just doesn?t make sense.
>> 2. ?You?ll never make anyone black believe that a white kid would
>> have laid in the street for four hours,? said Mike Jones, an
>> African-American and chief aide to St. Louis County Executive Charlie
>> Dooley. ?It defies any understanding of reality.?
>> 3. And that anger won?t go away soon, several Canfield residents
>> recently said.
>> 4. Torregrossa can still see Brown?s feet and head sticking out from
>> the white sheet, too small to cover his tall frame. ?The image in my mind,
>> him laying in the street, that baffles me,? Torregrossa said.
>> 5. ?That?s the only image I have of this young man, and I can?t shake
>> it.?
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it'
>> From: thansen at moscow.com
>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:42:31 -0800
>> CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> To: paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
>>
>> Mr. Dredge -
>>
>> Another question that NEEDS an answer: Why did Brown's body lay dead on
>> the ground . . . untouched . . for four hours . . . after the police
>> officer shot and killed,him?
>>
>>
>> http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/why-was-michael-brown-s-body-left-there-for-hours/article_0b73ec58-c6a1-516e-882f-74d18a4246e0.html
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>
>> - John Lennon
>>
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I really hate how this whole thing has developed. It started with the
>> death of Brown, with scant information, at which time it was believable
>> that he might have been raising his hands asking the cop not to shoot him.
>> I can see people jumping on that bandwagon. Later, it came to light that
>> he had assaulted the cop in his car, which totally changes the story. It's
>> still unfortunate, but it's miles away from saying "please don't shoot me"
>> and raising your hands. The cops-use-black-people-as-target-practice meme
>> is a powerful one, though, and that's what gets said during the protests.
>> Damn the facts, anyway, I guess.
>>
>> There may actually be a real problem here, since there have now been two
>> grand jury refusals to indict that I disagree with, but it's obscured by
>> this sort of thing. If the people protesting don't give a damn about what
>> actually happened, then why should I take anything they say, whether they
>> are 7 years old or 70, at face value? My basic assumption right now for
>> these protests is that they are making shit up and only if I see evidence
>> otherwise will I begin to believe them. It's sad, really.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> It's a worthy cause to protest ?against the unjust systems that allow
>> police officers to kill Black men and boys with impunity,?
>>
>>
>> https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/second-graders-spend-recess-protesting-ferguson-105366598412.html
>>
>>
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