[Vision2020] violent society

Scott Dredge scooterd408 at hotmail.com
Tue Dec 16 21:10:52 PST 2014 

I agree that our nation has a long sad history of racial injustice - most notably in the dirty South along with some high profile cases in New York City and Los Angeles.  Justice wasn't served in the Ferguson case (in terms of securing a Grand Jury indictment) because the prosecutor didn't want one.  A better approach would have been to follow the script of the George Zimmerman prosecution:  Assign a special prosecutor tasked with aggressively going after him, bypass the Grand Jury altogether (because an indictment isn't possible), charge him with second degree murder without an indictment (if Missouri allows this), and take him to trial.  The downside is that when he's acquitted, you still have rioting, charges that justice wasn't served, and system is corrupt due to institutionalized racism.

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 01:17:14 +0000
From: rhayes at frontier.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] violent society

I read the posts of people who defend police violence with disdain. The arguments which delve into the intricacies of who did what ignore the larger, sad picture. We live in a violent society which, whether you admit it or not, has a long, long history of organized, state sanctioned violence against minority people. It really saddens me to think I might have a student who someday could be shot dead, strangled, or just blown away because of stealing a cigar, or selling untaxed cigarettes, playing with a fake gun in a park, or walking down the stairs of their apartment all due to looking suspicious. We need to take a look at our morals...all of us. A grand jury is not a trial. It's job is to determine if an indictment is warranted. A trial should have taken place. Justice would have been served. 
While I live in Moscow, thank goodness, it doesn't mean we are immune to or exempt from considering that our nation is not free from this institutional apartheid. This is a national tragedy, and sad travesty. 
Roger Hayes
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 Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 4:54 PM
 Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 102, Issue 100
   
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it' (Darrell Keim)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 16:54:32 -0800
From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it'
Message-ID:
    <CAE4+uhzeT9sw9JityUJNmP99ME=r5iDfebGwzZ_WM2A7zgx3_g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Good Gawd, I hope not!  I don't know anything about trains and church
organs.  Which was my point...

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> ...
> I am just as certain that if there should be conversations concerning
> railroad operations or church organ music, here on the Viz, your
> reflections would be eagerly welcome.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That's right, Mr. Dredge!  Can't question expertise like Mr. Hansen's.
>
> My Dad retired from a railroad and my Mom plays the organ at church.  I am
> now qualified to conduct BOTH.
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>> No, Mr. Dredge, I would NOT have considered it an "action of disrespect"
>> . . . If crime scene investigator had responded IMMEDIATELY!
>>
>> FYI, Mr. Dredge:  My father was a member of the LAPD (Los Angeles Police
>> Department) for 36 (thirty-six) years.  This is not foreign to me, ok?
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>
>> - John Lennon
>>
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> To expand on the point of ?It really is a double-edged sword,? had the
>> body been moved sooner, Mr. Hansen would still be claiming this to be an
>> action of disrespect and that the crime scene wasn't processed properly.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>> To: thansen at moscow.com; paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:06:21 -0700
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it'
>>
>> Mr. Hansen writes:
>> <Another question that NEEDS an answer:  Why did Brown's body lay dead on
>> the ground . . . untouched . . for four hours . . . after the police
>> officer shot and killed,him?>
>>
>> The article you linked to does a pretty good job answering that question
>> by providing a number of reasons:
>>
>>
>>    1. This shooting was on a Saturday, with a skeleton crew on duty and
>>    an earlier incident miles away that delayed detectives from getting to
>>    Ferguson.
>>    2. Jackson and others said the scene was so chaotic that there were
>>    moments when they didn?t know if they were going to get out without getting
>>    hurt or hurting someone else.
>>    3. Several medical examiners and coroner officials from across the
>>    country said every crime scene is different. Some take all day to process.
>>    4. ?Sometimes it?s a little disconcerting in an open scene for the
>>    family to see a body lying there,? said Dave R. Fowler, chief medical
>>    examiner in Baltimore. ?But this is not ?CSI.??
>>    5. The best way to serve the public and the victim?s family is to do
>>    your job properly, they all said, and get as close to the truth as possible.
>>    6. There are absolutes in police work, Belmar said in an interview
>>    Friday. Protect the crime scene. Investigate thoroughly. ?What would we
>>    have gained by taking pictures of Mr. Brown?s body and simply getting him
>>    out of there as fast as we could?? Belmar asked. ?... It might have moved
>>    (the timeline) up an hour and a half.?
>>    7. Or would that have left the grand jury ? convening now on this
>>    case ? without the benefit of a thorough crime scene investigation? ?It
>>    really is a double-edged sword,? Belmar said.
>>
>>
>>
>> The article also concedes that the reasons listed above don't matter
>> because the headline of 'white cop kills black man' trumps all else:
>>
>>
>>    1. But for many in Ferguson, none of that will matter. Regardless of
>>    the evidence, the experts, the gunshots and the crowds, a young man?s body
>>    left on the street for four hours just doesn?t make sense.
>>    2. ?You?ll never make anyone black believe that a white kid would
>>    have laid in the street for four hours,? said Mike Jones, an
>>    African-American and chief aide to St. Louis County Executive Charlie
>>    Dooley. ?It defies any understanding of reality.?
>>    3. And that anger won?t go away soon, several Canfield residents
>>    recently said.
>>    4. Torregrossa can still see Brown?s feet and head sticking out from
>>    the white sheet, too small to cover his tall frame. ?The image in my mind,
>>    him laying in the street, that baffles me,? Torregrossa said.
>>    5. ?That?s the only image I have of this young man, and I can?t shake
>>    it.?
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it'
>> From: thansen at moscow.com
>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:42:31 -0800
>> CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> To: paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
>>
>> Mr. Dredge -
>>
>> Another question that NEEDS an answer:  Why did Brown's body lay dead on
>> the ground . . . untouched . . for four hours . . . after the police
>> officer shot and killed,him?
>>
>>
>> http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/why-was-michael-brown-s-body-left-there-for-hours/article_0b73ec58-c6a1-516e-882f-74d18a4246e0.html
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>
>> - John Lennon
>>
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I really hate how this whole thing has developed.  It started with the
>> death of Brown, with scant information, at which time it was believable
>> that he might have been raising his hands asking the cop not to shoot him.
>> I can see people jumping on that bandwagon.  Later, it came to light that
>> he had assaulted the cop in his car, which totally changes the story.  It's
>> still unfortunate, but it's miles away from saying "please don't shoot me"
>> and raising your hands.  The cops-use-black-people-as-target-practice meme
>> is a powerful one, though, and that's what gets said during the protests.
>> Damn the facts, anyway, I guess.
>>
>> There may actually be a real problem here, since there have now been two
>> grand jury refusals to indict that I disagree with, but it's obscured by
>> this sort of thing.  If the people protesting don't give a damn about what
>> actually happened, then why should I take anything they say, whether they
>> are 7 years old or 70, at face value?  My basic assumption right now for
>> these protests is that they are making shit up and only if I see evidence
>> otherwise will I begin to believe them.  It's sad, really.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> It's a worthy cause to protest ?against the unjust systems that allow
>> police officers to kill Black men and boys with impunity,?
>>
>>
>> https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/second-graders-spend-recess-protesting-ferguson-105366598412.html
>>
>>
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