<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_6633"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_6643">I read the posts of people who defend police violence with disdain. The arguments which delve into the intricacies of who did what ignore the larger, sad picture. We live in a violent society which, whether you admit it or not, has a long, long history of organized, state sanctioned violence against minority people. It really saddens me to think I might have a student who someday could be shot dead, strangled, or just blown away because of stealing a cigar, or selling untaxed cigarettes, playing with a fake gun in a park, or walking down the stairs of their apartment all due to looking suspicious. We need to take a look at our morals...all of us. A grand jury is not a trial. It's job is to determine if an indictment is warranted. A trial should have taken place. Justice would have been served. <br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_7684" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_6643">While I live in Moscow, thank goodness, it doesn't mean we are immune to or exempt from considering that our nation is not free from this institutional apartheid. </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_7685" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_6643">This is a national tragedy, and sad travesty. <br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_7686" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_6643">Roger Hayes</span></div><br> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_6636" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_6635" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_6634" dir="ltr"> <hr id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_7123" size="1"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_6637" size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "vision2020-request@moscow.com" <vision2020-request@moscow.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> vision2020@moscow.com <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December 16, 2014 4:54 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Vision2020 Digest, Vol 102, Issue 100<br> </font> </div> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_9091" class="y_msg_container"><br>Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<br> <a href="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1418774496467_9092" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com">vision2020-request@moscow.com</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:vision2020-owner@moscow.com">vision2020-owner@moscow.com</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it' (Darrell Keim)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 16:54:32 -0800<br>From: Darrell Keim <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:keim153@gmail.com">keim153@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Tom Hansen <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>Cc: "<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it'<br>Message-ID:<br> <CAE4+uhzeT9sw9JityUJNmP99ME=<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:r5iDfebGwzZ_WM2A7zgx3_g@mail.gmail.com">r5iDfebGwzZ_WM2A7zgx3_g@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Good Gawd, I hope not! I don't know anything about trains and church<br>organs. Which was my point...<br><br>On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Tom Hansen <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> ...<br>> I am just as certain that if there should be conversations concerning<br>> railroad operations or church organ music, here on the Viz, your<br>> reflections would be eagerly welcome.<br>><br>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .<br>><br>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)<br>> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com </a><<a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.moscowcares.com/</a>><br>><br>> Tom Hansen<br>> Moscow, Idaho<br>><br>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.<br>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,<br>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."<br>><br>> - John Lennon<br>><br>><br>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Darrell Keim <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:keim153@gmail.com">keim153@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> That's right, Mr. Dredge! Can't question expertise like Mr. Hansen's.<br>><br>> My Dad retired from a railroad and my Mom plays the organ at church. I am<br>> now qualified to conduct BOTH.<br>><br>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Tom Hansen <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> No, Mr. Dredge, I would NOT have considered it an "action of disrespect"<br>>> . . . If crime scene investigator had responded IMMEDIATELY!<br>>><br>>> FYI, Mr. Dredge: My father was a member of the LAPD (Los Angeles Police<br>>> Department) for 36 (thirty-six) years. This is not foreign to me, ok?<br>>><br>>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .<br>>><br>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)<br>>> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com </a><<a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.moscowcares.com/</a>><br>>><br>>> Tom Hansen<br>>> Moscow, Idaho<br>>><br>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.<br>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,<br>>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."<br>>><br>>> - John Lennon<br>>><br>>><br>>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Scott Dredge <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>><br>>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> To expand on the point of ?It really is a double-edged sword,? had the<br>>> body been moved sooner, Mr. Hansen would still be claiming this to be an<br>>> action of disrespect and that the crime scene wasn't processed properly.<br>>><br>>> ------------------------------<br>>> From: <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a><br>>> To: <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>; <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:paul.rumelhart@gmail.com">paul.rumelhart@gmail.com</a><br>>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:06:21 -0700<br>>> CC: <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it'<br>>><br>>> Mr. Hansen writes:<br>>> <Another question that NEEDS an answer: Why did Brown's body lay dead on<br>>> the ground . . . untouched . . for four hours . . . after the police<br>>> officer shot and killed,him?><br>>><br>>> The article you linked to does a pretty good job answering that question<br>>> by providing a number of reasons:<br>>><br>>><br>>> 1. This shooting was on a Saturday, with a skeleton crew on duty and<br>>> an earlier incident miles away that delayed detectives from getting to<br>>> Ferguson.<br>>> 2. Jackson and others said the scene was so chaotic that there were<br>>> moments when they didn?t know if they were going to get out without getting<br>>> hurt or hurting someone else.<br>>> 3. Several medical examiners and coroner officials from across the<br>>> country said every crime scene is different. Some take all day to process.<br>>> 4. ?Sometimes it?s a little disconcerting in an open scene for the<br>>> family to see a body lying there,? said Dave R. Fowler, chief medical<br>>> examiner in Baltimore. ?But this is not ?CSI.??<br>>> 5. The best way to serve the public and the victim?s family is to do<br>>> your job properly, they all said, and get as close to the truth as possible.<br>>> 6. There are absolutes in police work, Belmar said in an interview<br>>> Friday. Protect the crime scene. Investigate thoroughly. ?What would we<br>>> have gained by taking pictures of Mr. Brown?s body and simply getting him<br>>> out of there as fast as we could?? Belmar asked. ?... It might have moved<br>>> (the timeline) up an hour and a half.?<br>>> 7. Or would that have left the grand jury ? convening now on this<br>>> case ? without the benefit of a thorough crime scene investigation? ?It<br>>> really is a double-edged sword,? Belmar said.<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> The article also concedes that the reasons listed above don't matter<br>>> because the headline of 'white cop kills black man' trumps all else:<br>>><br>>><br>>> 1. But for many in Ferguson, none of that will matter. Regardless of<br>>> the evidence, the experts, the gunshots and the crowds, a young man?s body<br>>> left on the street for four hours just doesn?t make sense.<br>>> 2. ?You?ll never make anyone black believe that a white kid would<br>>> have laid in the street for four hours,? said Mike Jones, an<br>>> African-American and chief aide to St. Louis County Executive Charlie<br>>> Dooley. ?It defies any understanding of reality.?<br>>> 3. And that anger won?t go away soon, several Canfield residents<br>>> recently said.<br>>> 4. Torregrossa can still see Brown?s feet and head sticking out from<br>>> the white sheet, too small to cover his tall frame. ?The image in my mind,<br>>> him laying in the street, that baffles me,? Torregrossa said.<br>>> 5. ?That?s the only image I have of this young man, and I can?t shake<br>>> it.?<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ------------------------------<br>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ferguson second grade protesters 'get it'<br>>> From: <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:42:31 -0800<br>>> CC: <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>; <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>> To: <a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:paul.rumelhart@gmail.com">paul.rumelhart@gmail.com</a><br>>><br>>> Mr. Dredge -<br>>><br>>> Another question that NEEDS an answer: Why did Brown's body lay dead on<br>>> the ground . . . untouched . . for four hours . . . after the police<br>>> officer shot and killed,him?<br>>><br>>><br>>> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/why-was-michael-brown-s-body-left-there-for-hours/article_0b73ec58-c6a1-516e-882f-74d18a4246e0.html</a><br>>><br>>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .<br>>><br>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)<br>>> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com </a><<a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.moscowcares.com/</a>><br>>><br>>> Tom Hansen<br>>> Moscow, Idaho<br>>><br>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.<br>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,<br>>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."<br>>><br>>> - John Lennon<br>>><br>>><br>>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:paul.rumelhart@gmail.com">paul.rumelhart@gmail.com</a>><br>>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> I really hate how this whole thing has developed. It started with the<br>>> death of Brown, with scant information, at which time it was believable<br>>> that he might have been raising his hands asking the cop not to shoot him.<br>>> I can see people jumping on that bandwagon. Later, it came to light that<br>>> he had assaulted the cop in his car, which totally changes the story. It's<br>>> still unfortunate, but it's miles away from saying "please don't shoot me"<br>>> and raising your hands. The cops-use-black-people-as-target-practice meme<br>>> is a powerful one, though, and that's what gets said during the protests.<br>>> Damn the facts, anyway, I guess.<br>>><br>>> There may actually be a real problem here, since there have now been two<br>>> grand jury refusals to indict that I disagree with, but it's obscured by<br>>> this sort of thing. If the people protesting don't give a damn about what<br>>> actually happened, then why should I take anything they say, whether they<br>>> are 7 years old or 70, at face value? My basic assumption right now for<br>>> these protests is that they are making shit up and only if I see evidence<br>>> otherwise will I begin to believe them. It's sad, really.<br>>><br>>> Paul<br>>><br>>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Scott Dredge <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>><br>>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> It's a worthy cause to protest ?against the unjust systems that allow<br>>> police officers to kill Black men and boys with impunity,?<br>>><br>>><br>>> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/second-graders-spend-recess-protesting-ferguson-105366598412.html</a><br>>><br>>><br>>> =======================================================<br>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>> mailto:<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>> =======================================================<br>>><br>>> =======================================================<br>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>> mailto:<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a> <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>>> =======================================================<br>>><br>>><br>>> ======================================================= List services<br>>> made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the<br>>> Palouse since 1994. <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net </a>mailto:<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>> <<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>>> =======================================================<br>>><br>>><br>>> =======================================================<br>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>> mailto:<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>> =======================================================<br>>><br>><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20141216/d2ba52ba/attachment.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="" class="removed-link" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="" class="removed-link" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<br><br>End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 102, Issue 100<br>********************************************<br><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>