[Vision2020] So, you think our borders need tightening, huh?

Sun Sep 1 16:36:09 PDT 2013

Is the 'loosen the standards to what they were when my grandparents came over' an apples to apples comparison for undocumented workers picking apples and being paid by the barrel?  For the case of undocumented workers from Mexico, you might have several bad apples spoiling the whole barrel.  At least that's what I hear regarding drug runners and violent criminals who are clearly in the minority.

If you're grandparents came over from Mexico into open arms, then I'd agree that times have changed dramatically.  If they came over from another continent, then I'm not even sure what's really changed since then and now.  I'm not aware of any huge controversy of immigrants from, say Europe, being blocked and turned away from legally entering the United States and subsequently naturalizing if they so choose.  Most of the controversy seems to be closing the flood gates from Mexico and also figuring out how to deal with the millions of those from Mexico who are here illegally.

I don't think it's an easy problem to solve.  I'd prefer that we have a better partnership with Mexico to tap into their labor and resources in a mutually beneficial way that enriches the lives of those in both countries.  But since their system of government and infrastructure is so screwed up, I don't see that happening anytime soon.  Thus, the Unites States needs to ensure that the imbalance between the two countries that results in millions of Mexicans wanting to cross the border legally or illegally doesn't have significant negative impact to the nation's economy and security.

CC: thansen at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com; jeannemchale at hotmail.com; fritzknorr at gmail.com
From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] So, you think our borders need tightening,  huh?
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 19:53:23 -0700
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com

This is all reasonable. We should loosen the standards to what they were when my grandparents came over, when we were welcoming the chance to give folks an opportunity. That is my view.
If I had a party, I'd try to invite everyone. Obviously in my case there are space limitations, so I can't do that. But that's not the case with the USA. 
I see Democracy as one big, social party. You want to invite as many as possible. We don't have a problem killing people to get them on board. We shouldn't have a problem inviting them in.
Maybe I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.
Joe
On Aug 31, 2013, at 6:53 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

I think I fully grasp the behavior in this case.  They're in a shit hole of a country that borders the richest country on the planet.  Thus they're trying to cross by any means necessary.  If they're crossing illegally, I don't necessarily find that to be immoral and I'd likely do the same thing if I was in their same situation and could convince my conscience that breaking United States immigration laws was ethically justifiable.  I find the idea of jet skis to be quite the opposite of stupid.  It's quite resourceful.  It's also relatively expensive and the chances of success are likely low.  I certainly don't begrudge anyone for fleeing their screwed up homeland and going to the land of milk and honey and I can also understand that same land of opportunity securing its borders to better enforce its immigration policy.  In terms of 'considering' legal entry, the trend is heading more towards 'forcing' legal entry.
'So, you think out borders need tightening, huh?'

Answer: Yes
Justification: To prevent widespread illegal entry

CC: thansen at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com; jeannemchale at hotmail.com; fritzknorr at gmail.com
From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] So, you think our borders need tightening,  huh?
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:18:57 -0700
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com

Here's what I think. When you get a group of people who are united by race, origin, gender, or sexual preference and they behave in a similar fashion, and they end up doing something that you regard as immoral or just plain stupid, then likely there is a reasonable explanation for their behavior that you have not fully grasped. To think otherwise is to invite prejudice. Not that you're prejudiced but it would be hard to prevent an argument for that conclusion given your comments.
On Aug 31, 2013, at 4:56 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

Looks like the borders have been tightened quite nicely if the would be illegals are now resorting to trying end arounds via jet skis.  At some point maybe they'll consider entering the country through legal channels.  What a concept!!!

From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:52:33 -0700
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
CC: jeannemchale at hotmail.com; fritzknorr at gmail.com
Subject: [Vision2020] So, you think our borders need tightening,  huh?

Courtesy of San Diego News Video at: ----------------------------------------

TWO PULLED FROM OCEAN AFTER BORDER ENTRY ON JET SKI
----------------------------------------
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
======================================================= 		 	   		  
=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
======================================================= 		 	   		  

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130901/7566e6a1/attachment.html>