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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Is the 'loosen the standards to what they were when my grandparents came over' an apples to apples comparison for undocumented workers picking apples and being paid by the barrel? For the case of undocumented workers from Mexico, you might have several bad apples spoiling the whole barrel. At least that's what I hear regarding drug runners and violent criminals who are clearly in the minority.<br><br>If you're grandparents came over from Mexico into open arms, then I'd agree that times have changed dramatically. If they came over from another continent, then I'm not even sure what's really changed since then and now. I'm not aware of any huge controversy of immigrants from, say Europe, being blocked and turned away from legally entering the United States and subsequently naturalizing if they so choose. Most of the controversy seems to be closing the flood gates from Mexico and also figuring out how to deal with the millions of those from Mexico who are here illegally.<br><br>I don't think it's an easy problem to solve. I'd prefer that we have a better partnership with Mexico to tap into their labor and resources in a mutually beneficial way that enriches the lives of those in both countries. But since their system of government and infrastructure is so screwed up, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Thus, the Unites States needs to ensure that the imbalance between the two countries that results in millions of Mexicans wanting to cross the border legally or illegally doesn't have significant negative impact to the nation's economy and security.<br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">CC: thansen@moscow.com; vision2020@moscow.com; jeannemchale@hotmail.com; fritzknorr@gmail.com<br>From: philosopher.joe@gmail.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] So, you think our borders need tightening, huh?<br>Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 19:53:23 -0700<br>To: scooterd408@hotmail.com<br><br><div>This is all reasonable. We should loosen the standards to what they were when my grandparents came over, when we were welcoming the chance to give folks an opportunity. That is my view.</div><div><br></div><div>If I had a party, I'd try to invite everyone. Obviously in my case there are space limitations, so I can't do that. But that's not the case with the USA. </div><div><br></div><div>I see Democracy as one big, social party. You want to invite as many as possible. We don't have a problem killing people to get them on board. We shouldn't have a problem inviting them in.</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.</div><div><br></div><div>Joe</div><div><br>On Aug 31, 2013, at 6:53 PM, Scott Dredge <<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div>
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<div dir="ltr">I think I fully grasp the behavior in this case. They're in a shit hole of a country that borders the richest country on the planet. Thus they're trying to cross by any means necessary. If they're crossing illegally, I don't necessarily find that to be immoral and I'd likely do the same thing if I was in their same situation and could convince my conscience that breaking United States immigration laws was ethically justifiable. I find the idea of jet skis to be quite the opposite of stupid. It's quite resourceful. It's also relatively expensive and the chances of success are likely low. I certainly don't begrudge anyone for fleeing their screwed up homeland and going to the land of milk and honey and I can also understand that same land of opportunity securing its borders to better enforce its immigration policy. In terms of 'considering' legal entry, the trend is heading more towards 'forcing' legal entry.</div></div></blockquote><blockquote><div><div dir="ltr"><br>'So, you think out borders need tightening, huh?'<br><br>Answer: Yes<br>Justification: To prevent widespread illegal entry<br><br><div><hr id="ecxstopSpelling">CC: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>; <a href="mailto:jeannemchale@hotmail.com">jeannemchale@hotmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:fritzknorr@gmail.com">fritzknorr@gmail.com</a><br>From: <a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] So, you think our borders need tightening, huh?<br>Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:18:57 -0700<br>To: <a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a><br><br><div>Here's what I think. When you get a group of people who are united by race, origin, gender, or sexual preference and they behave in a similar fashion, and they end up doing something that you regard as immoral or just plain stupid, then likely there is a reasonable explanation for their behavior that you have not fully grasped. To think otherwise is to invite prejudice. Not that you're prejudiced but it would be hard to prevent an argument for that conclusion given your comments.</div><div><br>On Aug 31, 2013, at 4:56 PM, Scott Dredge <<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div>
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<div dir="ltr">Looks like the borders have been tightened quite nicely if the would be illegals are now resorting to trying end arounds via jet skis. At some point maybe they'll consider entering the country through legal channels. What a concept!!!<br><br><div><hr id="ecxstopSpelling">From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:52:33 -0700<br>To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:jeannemchale@hotmail.com">jeannemchale@hotmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:fritzknorr@gmail.com">fritzknorr@gmail.com</a><br>Subject: [Vision2020] So, you think our borders need tightening, huh?<br><br><div><span></span></div><div><div><span></span></div><div><div><span></span></div><div><div><span></span></div><div><div>Courtesy of San Diego News Video at:</div><div><span style="font-size:15px;line-height:19px;white-space:nowrap;"> </span></div><div>----------------------------------------<br><br><h1 id="ecxwatch-headline-title" class="ecxyt" style="padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:24px;color:rgb(34, 34, 34);font-weight:normal;overflow:hidden;white-space:nowrap;word-wrap:normal;text-overflow:ellipsis;font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span id="ecxeow-title" class="ecxwatch-title ecxlong-title ecxyt-uix-expander-head" dir="ltr" title="08 31 TWO PULLED FROM OCEAN AFTER BORDER ENTRY ON JET SKI SD 480p" style="padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:0.9em;cursor:pointer;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:-0.05em;">TWO PULLED FROM OCEAN AFTER BORDER ENTRY ON JET SKI</span></h1></div><div><br><div><span style="">----------------------------------------</span></div><div><br></div><div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div><div><br></div><div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div><div><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div><div> </div><div><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size:medium;">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span></div><span style="font-size:medium;">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size:medium;"><span style="font-size:medium;">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div><font size="3"><span style=""><br></span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span style="">- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br><br><div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div><div><br></div><div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div><div><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div><div> </div><div><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size:medium;">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span></div><span style="font-size:medium;">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size:medium;"><span style="font-size:medium;">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div><font size="3"><span style=""><br></span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span style="">- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div><div><br></div></div><br>=======================================================
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