[Vision2020] The scientific debate on climate change: 67 comments

[Joe Campbell]

What are the websites where you are finding this "information"? Websites
like "American Thinker," where you can read other articles like one which
opens with this quote: "Leftists seem to harbor a profound ignorance of
geography, history, and other hard facts which anyone involved in politics
ought to know. How exactly do they get away with it?" Nothing biased about
that statement!

On the Spencer website there are responses to the article that make some
interesting points including one person who states that the graphs (models
vs. empirical data) are "broadly consistent" since they are in the same
graph quadrant. Meaning the empirical data suggests global warming, just
not at the rate that the models suggest.

Here is another interesting commentary on these studies:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2011/08/01/climate-science-once-again-twisted-beyond-recog/185135



On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:

> The point is that the climate models are predictions, and those
> predictions are not turning out well in precise areas, and that means they
> have a problem.  They should be comparing the predicted data with the
> observed data and trying to find out exactly where they are wrong.  Are
> they inflating the positive feedback values for clouds?  Are they not
> putting enough emphasis on solar changes?  Are they not taking ENSO into
> account, are they not taking the jet stream into account?  Whatever the
> problem is, if they want skeptics to accept their climate models as
> accurate, they have to show how well they predict future data.  This isn't
> some kind of egregious task set before them, it's basic science.  Their
> climate models are in effect hypotheses, and the observations will either
> validate those hypotheses or fail them.
>
> So why, when you do a google search for climate models vs. observations,
> do you turn up mostly Spencer and Curry's work, but not that of more
> mainstream climate scientists?
>
> Paul
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> *To:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>; Moscow Vision 2020 <
> vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:18 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] The scientific debate on climate change: 67
> comments
>
> Is the point that it might take an extra generation for the polar ice caps
> to melt? When you are talking about climate change I fail to see how "less
> dire" isn't still DIRE.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> The observations I'm talking about are temperature measurements.  They
> tend to be much less dire than the predictions.  Here is one example:
> http://www.drroyspencer.com/2013/06/epic-fail-73-climate-models-vs-observations-for-tropical-tropospheric-temperature/
>
> Paul
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> *To:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>; Moscow Vision 2020 <
> vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2013 8:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] The scientific debate on climate change: 67
> comments
>
> Observations? Skeptic observations? What is the observable data you allude
> to?
>
> On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> That's cute.  If you erased the words "SKEPTIC MODELS" and replaced them
> with "OBSERVATIONS" and then drew, say, the Incredible Hulk in the other
> corner it might be a funnier cartoon.  Or maybe Iron Man, or even the
> boxing kangaroo from the old bugs bunny cartoons.
>
> Paul
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> *To:* Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:24 PM
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] The scientific debate on climate change: 67
> comments
>
> http://www.realclimate.org/?comments_popup=15488
> The scientific debate on climate change<http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/05/the-scientific-debate-on-climate-change/>
> Filed under:
>
>    - Climate Science<http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/category/climate-science/>
>
> — david @ 24 May 2013
> by Jill and David Archer
>  -----------------------------------------
> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>
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