[Vision2020] Anti-discrimination Ordinances

[Joe Campbell]

Thanks Darrell. I guess it was the explicit nature of the ban against gays that makes me scratch my head.

Suppose a scouting franchise was owned by a church the members of which didn't consider (say) LDS to be a Christian religion, and also considered all non-Christians to be atheists. By your reasoning it would be fine for that troop to ban Mormons, which seems wrong.

That strikes me as an appropriate analogy with the gay scout case. It isn't as if all Christian denominations are equally opposed to "homosexuality." There are gay bishops in both the Episcopal and Lutheran churches, for instance. And of course there are non-Christian denominations that are tolerant of gays and lesbians as well. 

It seems wrong to ban scouts based on their religious views and if one of the local franchises did so I'm sure there would be an uproar. I see no difference in the case of sexual preference. 

By the way I was a Boy Scout so I'm not opposed to scouting in general. I'm proud of you for your service to the community and I'm sure the boys whose lives you've influenced are happy for your services as well.

On Jun 7, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:

> "What I don't understand is that there are a lot of "immoral" activities besides "homosexuality" and atheism (neither one of which I consider to be genuinely immoral). Why not explicitly list them all? You could apparently be a thief, a liar, a rapist, etc. and the scouts don't give a damn. That's why the restrictions are/were prejudicial in my view."
>  
> Joe:
>  
> When you join the Scouts you take an oath to "Do Your Best" to abide by a code described in the Scout Oath and Law.
>  
> The twelve points of the Scout Law would seem to implicitly preclude membership for rapists, thieves, etc.  I will concede that is not explicit exclusion, as their current stance against homosexual leaders is.
>  
> Having spent nearly 10 years as a Scouting professional, and now serving as one of the top local district leaders, I could go into great amounts of detail about many Scouting related topics, but I will graciously save you from the boredom.  Suffice it to say that most of their stances have to do with how they are structured.  They are essentially a franchise, and they license out the rights to use their program to local organizations.  Like all franchises, those organizations own the local group, but agree to abide by Scouting policies.  Once you realize that most (75-80%) Scouting groups are "owned" by churches (Some of the largest users of the program are the Catholic, LDS, Methodist and Lutheran churches), it becomes clear why they take certain stances.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>> It is funny that you ask that, Wayne! Here is the BSA's statement on the matter:
>> 
>> The BSA maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law."
>> 
>> So technically, you can't be an atheist and a boy scout.
>> 
>> 
>> What I don't understand is that there are a lot of "immoral" activities besides "homosexuality" and atheism (neither one of which I consider to be genuinely immoral). Why not explicitly list them all? You could apparently be a thief, a liar, a rapist, etc. and the scouts don't give a damn. That's why the restrictions are/were prejudicial in my view.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>>> Tom,
>>> 
>>> I hate to admit this, but we agree!   Now comes the question of why this sponsorship was afforded to a private organization in the first place by a branch of government, like the Sheriff's department, subsidized by taxes? 
>>> 
>>> I seriously run into 1st amendment issues, with a government agency, supported by tax dollars, sponsoring ANY group who's basic principles require an oath to " do my duty to God".
>>> Does this mean that those who, for what ever reason, do not believe in "God" are not welcome as they cannot take such an oath in good conscience?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Wayne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jun 7, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Wayne Price inquires:
>>>> 
>>>> "And before some of the so called liberals on the list accuse me of advocating one way or the other, does a sponsor (who ever that sponsor is) have the right to bow out of a program that doesn't share it' s core beliefs?"
>>>> 
>>>> NOT if that sponsor is publiclly subsidized, like a county sheriff's office by taxes.
>>>> 
>>>> If a private entity wishes to withdraw its support for ANYTHING . . . so what!
>>>> 
>>>> Seeya at the Wingding, Moscow, because . . .
>>>> 
>>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>>   
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>> 
>>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still 
>>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
>>>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>>> 
>>>> - John Lennon
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 7, 2013, at 8:57 AM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> And before some of the so called liberals on the list accuse me of advocating one way or the other, does a sponsor (who ever that sponsor is) have the right to bow out of a program that doesn't share it' s core beliefs?
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> =======================================================
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> 
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