[Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!

Sat Jan 19 20:29:57 PST 2013

This is long but let me make clear that there is a considerable difference between the view that we shouldn't impinge on rights on a whim and the view I was criticizing. I think we're all in agreement that whims won't do it.

On Jan 19, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> Let's see.  
> 
> 1.  When the Constitution was written, we'd just finished a war in which we rebelled against those in authority and claimed our independence as a nation for ourselves.
> 
> 2.  Shortly after that, we wrote our own Constitution, which describes the ways in which government is limited.  No more royal decrees for us.
> 
> 3.  When adding the Bill of Rights, the restriction against infringing on our right to bear arms was added as the second such amendment, right after freedom of speech.
> 
> 4.  One assumes from this that the right to bear arms was indeed important to our forefathers.  And not because they wanted us to hunt.
> 
> Given all that, I think it's reasonable to assume that the right in question shouldn't be infringed upon on a whim.  Events like Newtown are rare, and each one gets splashed across the news for a month or more because it's very dramatic.  I don't like seeing children die either, but reducing magazine sizes to 10 rounds and removing scary-looking rifles while leaving just-as-functional rifles alone isn't going to stop the next spree shooting, even if it actually makes it's way into law.  Klebold was on this tenth 10-round magazine when he killed himself.  This guy that did Newtown would have had just as easy access to his mothers AR-15, since there is no way in hell they will pass something that will make people have to turn them in.  An ineffective law passed only because people are riled up about kids getting shot isn't worth weakening the 2nd amendment, in my opinion.
> 
> I can get behind better background checks, well thought-out restrictions on people suspected of being mentally ill (that's a whole other can of worms when we are talking about people's rights, but we should start the conversation), better data collection, and incentives to keep weapons secured and safe.  Banning assault weapons, though, is a farce.  It's a political ploy that's using people's fear and anger to pass something that makes it look like they are doing something that will help.
> 
> I'm not a member of the NRA, and I think they go way overboard sometimes.  Still, I haven't seen them or anyone else trying to claim that gun ownership should be unrestricted.  We already have gun registration, background checks, cooling off periods, and restrictions against actual assault weapons (i.e. fully automatic weapons).
> 
> Paul
> 
> On 01/19/2013 02:01 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>> How is the second amendment under threat?
>> 
>> The NRA interpretation of the 2nd amendment is absurd. It is in fact so absurd that neither you nor anyone else would try to defend it in a public setting. Which is why this post will be       followed by silence from you and others.
>> 
>> The idea that the right to own guns is UNRESTRICTED is absurd. NO rights are unrestricted. If speech can be restricted, then so can the sale and purchase of guns. And speech is and can be restricted.
>> 
>> If the NRA position has something to do with RIGHTS, then you should be able to name another right that is similarly unrestricted. But you can't. The NRA position has nothing to do with rights. It has to do with gun sales.
>> 
>> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The nerve of those people!  Having a rally in support of one of the amendments to the Constitution!  How despicable!  How un-American!
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> On 01/19/2013 09:32 AM, rhayes at frontier.com wrote:
>>>> Happy Gun Violence day today everyone! Hope you have a bang!
>>>> 
>>>> From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:06 AM
>>>> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 79, Issue 205
>>>> 
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>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>>>> 
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>> 
>>>>   1. Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Ron Force)
>>>>   2. Re: Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Tom Hansen)
>>>>   3. Caturday (January 19, 2013) (Tom Hansen)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:40:44 -0800 (PST)
>>>> From: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>     <1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo at web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Ron Force
>>>> Moscow Idaho USA
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>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0800
>>>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>> To: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"
>>>> Message-ID: <CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8 at moscow.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Gun Rally Planned This Weekend in Coeur d'Alene
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj
>>>> 
>>>> COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho (AP) - Gun advocates in northern Idaho are planning a rally and encouraging participants to openly carry weapons as allowed by Idaho law.
>>>>     
>>>> The Coeur d'Alene Press reports (http://bit.ly/WdqSJr) that the Second Amendment rally and gun appreciation event is planned for 1 p.m. Saturday at Black Sheep Sporting Goods in Coeur d'Alene.
>>>>     
>>>> Organizers say guest speakers include state lawmakers.
>>>> 
>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>>> 
>>>> "Moscow Cares"
>>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>>   
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>> 
>>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still 
>>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
>>>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>>> 
>>>> - John Lennon
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:40 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk
>>>> >  
>>>> > Ron Force
>>>> > Moscow Idaho USA
>>>> > =======================================================
>>>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> >              http://www.fsr.net
>>>> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 06:06:20 -0800
>>>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>> To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Caturday (January 19, 2013)
>>>> Message-ID: <
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