[Vision2020] GPS Tracking and Secret Policies

Scott Dredge scooterd408 at hotmail.com
Sat Aug 17 13:16:08 PDT 2013


Paul writes:
<[Tom is] firing one the wrong target, dude'>
Why am I so not shocked?  Tom fires non-stop, indiscriminately, all over the map, and rarely if ever hits any target.  This probably explains why he's so against first person shooter games that allow others to hone their skills.

I also support a woman's right to choose abortion.  Apparently women have this right nationwide since 1973 and Tom hasn't yet gotten the memo.

I also full support the rights of same sex couples to marry.  This is a right afforded to same sex couples by the US Constitution's 5th and 14th amendments.  Apparently Tom hasn't gotten those memos either although admitted those may be still considered as 'hot off the press'.

Paul goes on to write <no one should have to live a lie [of pretending to be straight]>
It's been proven conclusively that 'living a lie' doesn't help in the least.  Senator Larry Craig states that he is 'completely heterosexual'.  He's been married to the same woman for the past 30 years.  He has 3 children.  He has a perfect 100% voting record against gay rights.  Does any this matter one effing bit to anyone sitting in character judgement of him?  The answer is 'NO'.  It matters not one bit that he states that he not gay.  It matters not one bit that he's had a 'traditional' family for the past 30 years.  He is hated by Republicans because they think he is gay and thus 'scum of the earth for living a lie'.  He is hated by Democrats because they think his is gay and thus 'scum of the earth for living a lie'.

I agree that <no one should have to live a lie>.  In my opinion, neither should they be crucified for choosing to live a 'traditional' lifestyle, but since I'm the only one who holds that opinion, I'm 'wrong' especially considering that 'might makes right' and thus mob rule carries the day once again.

-Scott

Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:38:52 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: thansen at moscow.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GPS Tracking and Secret Policies


  
    
  
  
    

      You're firing on the wrong target, dude.  I'm not a Republican. 
      I'm ambivalent about abortion, I can see value in both side's
      arguments.  I fully support the rights of same-sex couples to
      marry. 

      

      (Obligatory request to break out of the Democrat/Republican
      polarization mindset)

      

      The civil liberties I'm talking about refer to the abuses of the
      past two administrations with regards to the Patriot Act, NDAA,
      assassination-by-drones, illegal wiretaps, Gitmo, foreign wars,
      and now the nice little list of badness brought to us by Snowden. 
      I'm probably missing a hundred others, it's hard to keep up.

      

      Not that it all started with Bush, but 9/11 is a useful
      demarcation for these kinds of activities.

      

      Oh, and it wouldn't matter to me if Ann Romney did let everyone
      know she is gay.  More power to her, no one should have to live a
      lie.  It wouldn't affect my views of her husband at all, for
      better or worse.  I would still definitely not vote for him, if
      the chance ever came around again.  If anything, he appeared to
      care less about civil liberties than Obama did.

      

      Paul

      

      On 08/17/2013 12:19 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:

    
    
      
      
      
        
        Civil liberties?
        

        
        Ya mean something like a woman's right to choose and/or a
          couple's (regardless of gender) right to marry?
        

        
        And speaking of "nice speeches", did you like Ann Romney's
          coming-out announcement?
        

        
        http://www.tomandrodna.com/soundbites/Ann_Romney.mp3

          

          Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
          

          
          "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants
            on)
          http://www.MoscowCares.com
            
          
            Tom Hansen
            Moscow, Idaho
            

            
            "There's room at the top they are
                telling you still 
            But first you must learn how to smile as
              you kill 
            If you want to be like the folks on the
              hill."
          

              
          - John Lennon

              
             
          
          

          
        
        

          On Aug 17, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
          wrote:

          

        
        
          
            
            

              When the next election comes around, I plan to look over
              the candidates carefully.  I certainly don't plan on
              blindly jumping on anyone's bandwagon.  Civil liberties
              will be high on my list of issues to watch for, as will
              reigning in past abuses.  Let's see who sings that tune
              come election time.  That's who I will be focusing on.

              

              This time, though, I plan to look for past actions as well
              as just nice speeches.

              

              Paul

              

              On 08/17/2013 11:47 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:

            
            
              
              Rand Paul is no different than the other candidates
                as far as I can tell. I don't see any reason to think
                he'd have done better than Obama. Are you going to
                support a counter argument with his statements? That's
                why we elected Obama in the first place.
              

                On Aug 17, 2013, at 11:15 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>

                wrote:

                

              
              
                
                  
                  

                    I don't get this idea that if the Democrat isn't
                    that great, you can only look at the Republican
                    candidate (and vice versa) and then try to choose
                    the one that will screw us over less.

                    

                    There are other candidates out there.  I'd rather
                    vote FOR someone than AGAINST someone else.  I made
                    this mistake two elections ago.  I voted for Obama
                    because he billed himself as nega-Bush, the
                    antithesis of George W. Bush.  When it turned out he
                    was just Bush 2.0, I started looking for someone I
                    could vote for that I could live with if they were
                    elected.  I chose Gary Johnson the second time
                    around.  There are a surprising number of third
                    party candidates out there to choose from.  They
                    have to use the system designed by the Republicrats,
                    which is a major hurdle for them, but things can
                    change if we just recognize that blind party
                    affiliation is wrecking this country.

                    

                    Paul

                    

                    On 08/17/2013 09:13 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:

                  
                  
                    
                    So, you are suggesting . . .
                    

                    
                    Instead of voting for Biden or Clinton, someone
                      that may go through our sock drawers, we should
                      vote for Rand Paul (or whoever becomes the GOP
                      presidential candidate), someone that will ensure
                      that we cannot afford socks.

                      

                      Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
                      

                      
                      "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have
                        with your pants on)
                      http://www.MoscowCares.com
                        
                      
                        Tom Hansen
                        Moscow, Idaho
                        

                        
                        "There's room at the
                            top they are telling you still 
                        But first you must learn how
                          to smile as you kill 
                        If you want to be like the
                          folks on the hill."
                      

                          
                      - John Lennon

                          
                         
                      
                      

                      
                    
                    

                      On Aug 17, 2013, at 9:06 AM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>


                      wrote:

                      

                    
                    
                      
                        
                        My suggestion, for people who
                          call themselves 'Progressives' or 'Liberals'
                          or who oppose what both Bush and Obama, indeed
                          both parties are doing, is to stop voting for
                          politicians who support these measures. For
                          the next election, certainly this includes
                          both Biden and H. Clinton. Stop buying into
                          the rationalization that we have to vote for
                          them for the sake of Supreme Court nominees,
                          or whatever else is thrown at us. Vote for one
                          of the small parties. Maybe when the Ds see
                          that they can't count on our support while
                          they support and carry out these policies,
                          they will start to change. Right now there is
                          no pressure to change, only to continue what
                          Bush (and with Rendition, Clinton) started or
                          continued.

                          

                          Or come to terms with your support of empire,
                          Wall Street bailouts, illegal spying, the
                          murder of citizens and non-citizens with
                          drones, secret bombings etc. Votes for Obama,
                          Biden, H. Clinton certainly means support for
                          all those policies. 

                          

                          Please demonstrate for me, if you can, that
                          I'm wrong. I don't think you can, since it's
                          quite clear the politicians I named above
                          (along with most Republicans, though some
                          would not support the Wall Street bailouts)
                          all support those policies.

                          

                          Sunil

                          

                          
                            CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

                            From: moscowcares at moscow.com

                            Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GPS Tracking and
                            Secret Policies

                            Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:38:04 -0700

                            To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com

                            

                            And your suggestion is . . . ?

                              

                              Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because .
                                . .
                              

                              
                              "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can
                                have with your pants on)
                              http://www.MoscowCares.com
                                
                              
                                Tom Hansen
                                Moscow, Idaho
                                

                                
                                "There's

                                    room at the top they are telling you
                                    still 
                                But
                                  first you must learn how to smile as
                                  you kill 
                                If you
                                  want to be like the folks on the
                                  hill."
                              

                                  
                              - John
                                    Lennon

                                  
                                 
                              
                              

                              
                            
                            

                              On Aug 17, 2013, at 8:34 AM, Sunil
                              Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>


                              wrote:

                              

                            
                            
                              
                                
                                Only if we are partisan
                                  and blind to the consequences of his
                                  actions. 

                                  

                                  He has normalized torture, rendition,
                                  illegal killing of citizens...

                                  

                                  We can't do better than this?

                                  

                                  Sunil

                                  

                                  
                                    CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

                                    From: thansen at moscow.com

                                    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GPS
                                    Tracking and Secret Policies

                                    Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:33:41
                                    -0700

                                    To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com

                                    

                                    As much as I partially agree
                                      with you, Sunil . . .
                                    

                                    
                                    He is still the best game in
                                      town.
                                    

                                      Seeya 'round town, Moscow,
                                        because . . .
                                      

                                      
                                      "Moscow Cares" (the most fun
                                        you can have with your pants on)
                                      http://www.MoscowCares.com
                                        
                                      
                                        Tom Hansen
                                        Moscow, Idaho
                                        

                                        
                                        "There's


                                            room at the top they are
                                            telling you still 
                                        But

                                          first you must learn how to
                                          smile as you kill 
                                        If
                                          you want to be like the folks
                                          on the hill."
                                      

                                          
                                      -
                                            John Lennon

                                          
                                         
                                      
                                      

                                      
                                    
                                    

                                      On Aug 17, 2013, at 8:16 AM, Sunil
                                      Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>


                                      wrote:

                                      

                                    
                                    
                                      
                                        
                                        Obama promised
                                          the most transparent
                                          administration ever, but has
                                          instead gone after leaks and
                                          whistleblowers with more
                                          prosecutions than any - or is
                                          it all put together - previous
                                          administrations. He's against
                                          leaks except when it suits him
                                          politically; then leaks are
                                          okay.

                                          

                                          Sunil

                                          

                                          
                                            Date:
                                            Sat, 17 Aug 2013 07:50:57
                                            -0400

                                            From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com

                                            To: vision2020 at moscow.com

                                            Subject: [Vision2020] GPS
                                            Tracking and Secret Policies

                                            

                                            
                                              
                                                  
                                                 
                                              
                                              
                                              
                                              August 16, 2013
                                              GPS Tracking and
                                                Secret Policies
                                              By  THE


                                                      EDITORIAL BOARD
                                              
                                                This week brought fresh
                                                revelations about the
                                                National Security
                                                Agency’s sloppy and
                                                invasive collection of
                                                phone data on Americans
                                                and others, as reported
                                                first by The Washington
                                                Post. In another realm
                                                of surveillance — the
                                                government’s broad use
                                                of location tracking
                                                devices — the Justice
                                                Department was in
                                                federal court on
                                                Thursday defending its
                                                refusal to release memos
                                                containing information
                                                about its policies
                                                governing the use of GPS
                                                and other potentially
                                                invasive technologies. 

                                                The American Civil
                                                Liberties Union had
                                                brought the lawsuit to
                                                demand that the
                                                department make the
                                                memos public. The
                                                documents were prepared
                                                after a 2012 Supreme
                                                Court ruling, United
                                                States v. Jones, which
                                                held that placement of a
                                                hidden tracking device
                                                on a suspect’s car
                                                constitutes a “search”
                                                under the Fourth
                                                Amendment. 

                                                That case left lots of
                                                questions unanswered,
                                                including whether GPS
                                                tracking always requires
                                                a warrant based on
                                                probable cause, and how
                                                the Fourth Amendment
                                                applies to tracking
                                                someone 24/7 with
                                                cellphone location
                                                technology. After the
                                                decision was released,
                                                the F.B.I.’s general
                                                counsel, Andrew
                                                Weissmann, mentioned in
                                                a public talk that the
                                                government was issuing
                                                memos containing
                                                official guidance for
                                                federal agents and
                                                prosecutors on when they
                                                can use tracking
                                                technology and how the
                                                Jones decision applies
                                                to other types of
                                                techniques, beyond GPS.
                                                

                                                The public has a right
                                                to know the government’s
                                                policies on these
                                                matters. There is very
                                                good reason to be
                                                concerned about the
                                                government’s
                                                interpretation of its
                                                police powers,
                                                especially given the
                                                Obama administration’s
                                                insensitivity to privacy
                                                in its mass collection
                                                of phone data in the
                                                national security
                                                sphere. 

                                                When the A.C.L.U. filed
                                                a request for the memos
                                                under the Freedom of
                                                Information Act, the
                                                Justice Department
                                                responded by handing
                                                over copies with the
                                                text nearly entirely
                                                blanked out, prompting
                                                the lawsuit. The Justice
                                                Department claims that
                                                the memos were prepared
                                                anticipating litigation
                                                and are exempt from
                                                disclosure because they
                                                are a lawyer’s work
                                                product. But to the
                                                extent Mr. Weissmann
                                                accurately represented
                                                the memos, they also
                                                amount to statements of
                                                official policy, not
                                                merely exchanges by
                                                lawyers on legal
                                                theories, which the
                                                work-product exception
                                                is meant to protect. 

                                                Our strong hunch is that
                                                there is material in the
                                                memos that can and
                                                should be revealed
                                                without harm to law
                                                enforcement or the
                                                appropriate discussion
                                                of confidential legal
                                                strategies. At
                                                Thursday’s hearing,
                                                Judge William Pauley III
                                                said he would personally
                                                review the documents
                                                before deciding whether
                                                they should be released.
                                                

                                                It is distressing that
                                                the administration,
                                                which claims to welcome
                                                a debate over the
                                                government’s
                                                surveillance practices,
                                                time and again refuses
                                                to be transparent about
                                                those practices. Instead
                                                of awaiting a court
                                                order, the
                                                administration should
                                                release the tracking
                                                memos on its own. 

                                                
                                              
                                              

                                              -- 

                                              Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)

                                              art.deco.studios at gmail.com

                                              

                                              

                                            
                                            

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