[Vision2020] GPS Tracking and Secret Policies
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sat Aug 17 12:38:52 PDT 2013
You're firing on the wrong target, dude. I'm not a Republican. I'm
ambivalent about abortion, I can see value in both side's arguments. I
fully support the rights of same-sex couples to marry.
(Obligatory request to break out of the Democrat/Republican polarization
mindset)
The civil liberties I'm talking about refer to the abuses of the past
two administrations with regards to the Patriot Act, NDAA,
assassination-by-drones, illegal wiretaps, Gitmo, foreign wars, and now
the nice little list of badness brought to us by Snowden. I'm probably
missing a hundred others, it's hard to keep up.
Not that it all started with Bush, but 9/11 is a useful demarcation for
these kinds of activities.
Oh, and it wouldn't matter to me if Ann Romney did let everyone know she
is gay. More power to her, no one should have to live a lie. It
wouldn't affect my views of her husband at all, for better or worse. I
would still definitely not vote for him, if the chance ever came around
again. If anything, he appeared to care less about civil liberties than
Obama did.
Paul
On 08/17/2013 12:19 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
> Civil liberties?
>
> Ya mean something like a woman's right to choose and/or a couple's
> (regardless of gender) right to marry?
>
> And speaking of "nice speeches", did you like Ann Romney's coming-out
> announcement?
>
> http://www.tomandrodna.com/soundbites/Ann_Romney.mp3
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
> On Aug 17, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>> When the next election comes around, I plan to look over the
>> candidates carefully. I certainly don't plan on blindly jumping on
>> anyone's bandwagon. Civil liberties will be high on my list of
>> issues to watch for, as will reigning in past abuses. Let's see who
>> sings that tune come election time. That's who I will be focusing on.
>>
>> This time, though, I plan to look for past actions as well as just
>> nice speeches.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 08/17/2013 11:47 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>> Rand Paul is no different than the other candidates as far as I can
>>> tell. I don't see any reason to think he'd have done better than
>>> Obama. Are you going to support a counter argument with his
>>> statements? That's why we elected Obama in the first place.
>>>
>>> On Aug 17, 2013, at 11:15 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
>>> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't get this idea that if the Democrat isn't that great, you
>>>> can only look at the Republican candidate (and vice versa) and then
>>>> try to choose the one that will screw us over less.
>>>>
>>>> There are other candidates out there. I'd rather vote FOR someone
>>>> than AGAINST someone else. I made this mistake two elections ago.
>>>> I voted for Obama because he billed himself as nega-Bush, the
>>>> antithesis of George W. Bush. When it turned out he was just Bush
>>>> 2.0, I started looking for someone I could vote for that I could
>>>> live with if they were elected. I chose Gary Johnson the second
>>>> time around. There are a surprising number of third party
>>>> candidates out there to choose from. They have to use the system
>>>> designed by the Republicrats, which is a major hurdle for them, but
>>>> things can change if we just recognize that blind party affiliation
>>>> is wrecking this country.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> On 08/17/2013 09:13 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>>>> So, you are suggesting . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of voting for Biden or Clinton, someone that may go
>>>>> through our sock drawers, we should vote for Rand Paul (or whoever
>>>>> becomes the GOP presidential candidate), someone that will ensure
>>>>> that we cannot afford socks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>
>>>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
>>>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
>>>>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>>>>
>>>>> - John Lennon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 17, 2013, at 9:06 AM, Sunil Ramalingam
>>>>> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My suggestion, for people who call themselves 'Progressives' or
>>>>>> 'Liberals' or who oppose what both Bush and Obama, indeed both
>>>>>> parties are doing, is to stop voting for politicians who support
>>>>>> these measures. For the next election, certainly this includes
>>>>>> both Biden and H. Clinton. Stop buying into the rationalization
>>>>>> that we have to vote for them for the sake of Supreme Court
>>>>>> nominees, or whatever else is thrown at us. Vote for one of the
>>>>>> small parties. Maybe when the Ds see that they can't count on our
>>>>>> support while they support and carry out these policies, they
>>>>>> will start to change. Right now there is no pressure to change,
>>>>>> only to continue what Bush (and with Rendition, Clinton) started
>>>>>> or continued.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or come to terms with your support of empire, Wall Street
>>>>>> bailouts, illegal spying, the murder of citizens and non-citizens
>>>>>> with drones, secret bombings etc. Votes for Obama, Biden, H.
>>>>>> Clinton certainly means support for all those policies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please demonstrate for me, if you can, that I'm wrong. I don't
>>>>>> think you can, since it's quite clear the politicians I named
>>>>>> above (along with most Republicans, though some would not support
>>>>>> the Wall Street bailouts) all support those policies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sunil
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>> From: moscowcares at moscow.com <mailto:moscowcares at moscow.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GPS Tracking and Secret Policies
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:38:04 -0700
>>>>>> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And your suggestion is . . . ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>>>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
>>>>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
>>>>>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - John Lennon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 17, 2013, at 8:34 AM, Sunil Ramalingam
>>>>>> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only if we are partisan and blind to the consequences of his
>>>>>> actions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He has normalized torture, rendition, illegal killing of
>>>>>> citizens...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can't do better than this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sunil
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>> From: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GPS Tracking and Secret Policies
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:33:41 -0700
>>>>>> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As much as I partially agree with you, Sunil . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He is still the best game in town.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>>>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
>>>>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
>>>>>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - John Lennon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 17, 2013, at 8:16 AM, Sunil Ramalingam
>>>>>> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obama promised the most transparent administration ever,
>>>>>> but has instead gone after leaks and whistleblowers with
>>>>>> more prosecutions than any - or is it all put together -
>>>>>> previous administrations. He's against leaks except when
>>>>>> it suits him politically; then leaks are okay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sunil
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 07:50:57 -0400
>>>>>> From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] GPS Tracking and Secret Policies
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The New York Times <http://www.nytimes.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> August 16, 2013
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GPS Tracking and Secret Policies
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
>>>>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/opinion/editorialboard.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This week brought fresh revelations about the National
>>>>>> Security Agency’s sloppy and invasive collection of phone
>>>>>> data on Americans and others, as reported first by The
>>>>>> Washington Post. In another realm of surveillance — the
>>>>>> government’s broad use of location tracking devices — the
>>>>>> Justice Department was in federal court on Thursday
>>>>>> defending its refusal to release memos containing
>>>>>> information about its policies governing the use of GPS
>>>>>> and other potentially invasive technologies.
>>>>>> The American Civil Liberties Union had brought the
>>>>>> lawsuit to demand that the department make the memos
>>>>>> public. The documents were prepared after a 2012 Supreme
>>>>>> Court ruling, United States v. Jones, which held that
>>>>>> placement of a hidden tracking device on a suspect’s car
>>>>>> constitutes a “search” under the Fourth Amendment.
>>>>>> That case left lots of questions unanswered, including
>>>>>> whether GPS tracking always requires a warrant based on
>>>>>> probable cause, and how the Fourth Amendment applies to
>>>>>> tracking someone 24/7 with cellphone location technology.
>>>>>> After the decision was released, the F.B.I.’s general
>>>>>> counsel, Andrew Weissmann, mentioned in a public talk
>>>>>> that the government was issuing memos containing official
>>>>>> guidance for federal agents and prosecutors on when they
>>>>>> can use tracking technology and how the Jones decision
>>>>>> applies to other types of techniques, beyond GPS.
>>>>>> The public has a right to know the government’s policies
>>>>>> on these matters. There is very good reason to be
>>>>>> concerned about the government’s interpretation of its
>>>>>> police powers, especially given the Obama
>>>>>> administration’s insensitivity to privacy in its mass
>>>>>> collection of phone data in the national security sphere.
>>>>>> When the A.C.L.U. filed a request for the memos under the
>>>>>> Freedom of Information Act, the Justice Department
>>>>>> responded by handing over copies with the text nearly
>>>>>> entirely blanked out, prompting the lawsuit. The Justice
>>>>>> Department claims that the memos were prepared
>>>>>> anticipating litigation and are exempt from disclosure
>>>>>> because they are a lawyer’s work product. But to the
>>>>>> extent Mr. Weissmann accurately represented the memos,
>>>>>> they also amount to statements of official policy, not
>>>>>> merely exchanges by lawyers on legal theories, which the
>>>>>> work-product exception is meant to protect.
>>>>>> Our strong hunch is that there is material in the memos
>>>>>> that can and should be revealed without harm to law
>>>>>> enforcement or the appropriate discussion of confidential
>>>>>> legal strategies. At Thursday’s hearing, Judge William
>>>>>> Pauley III said he would personally review the documents
>>>>>> before deciding whether they should be released.
>>>>>> It is distressing that the administration, which claims
>>>>>> to welcome a debate over the government’s surveillance
>>>>>> practices, time and again refuses to be transparent about
>>>>>> those practices. Instead of awaiting a court order, the
>>>>>> administration should release the tracking memos on its own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>>>>> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>
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