[Vision2020] "We are the answer"
keely emerinemix
kjajmix1 at msn.com
Sat Mar 31 13:01:23 PDT 2012
I don't think that's what Paul is saying -- that it's all about poor, poor Paul -- and it's not fair to suggest that.
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:07:58 -0700
From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "We are the answer"
1. Rumelhart writes:
"If black teenagers wearing hoods were being harassed here in Moscow, I'd
be suggesting that we should all be more tolerant of others on this
list. If Muslim women in Moscow were being harassed I'd be suggesting
that we should all be more tolerant of each other."
Hence, Rumelhart would also heartily agree with the same amount of tenacity to the following:
"If KKK members wearing hoods were being harassed here in Moscow, I'd
be suggesting that we should all be more tolerant of others on this
list. If Aryan Nations members and other white supremacists in Moscow were being harassed I'd be suggesting
that we should all be more tolerant of each other."
2. Rumelhart also writes:
"But if one
particular faith is being singled out because of their beliefs and some
bad blood between list members, I'm effectively shunned if I suggest
that we be more tolerant of them."
So now its all about you, Rumelhart. Who would have guessed? Poor, poor Rumelhart.
w.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:24 PM, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
No, Paul, it is NOT "the main point of contention" that the Christ Church people "simply think that the historical facts of slavery differ from what's normally understood by historians" -- two of whose criticism of that view caused our thin-skinned patriarchal bigot Wilson to seek their censure by the Governor and the UI President.
Just to give you an idea of how generous Wilson is in his extension of the freedom of others to interfere with his mission . . .
Wilson's beliefs are made manifest in his words, and those words promote ideas that are dangerous to civil, stable society as you or I know it, and sound the death knell to anything resembling a flourishing, just and righteous -- or Christian -- society beyond that. His proud claim to be a "paleo-Confederate," his buddying around with Neo-Confederates, his attempts to persuade his followers that Blacks enjoyed being enslaved and his insistence that such slavery was Biblical -- all of this hints, minimally, at something less than mere errors of historical understanding. I'm a Bible student, not a scholar, but I can assure you that Antebellum slavery was in no way similar to Roman or earlier Hebraic slaveholding, and it was not at any point "Biblically defensible." Given that he makes his living pulling the hermeneutical and political wool over other Christians' eyes, it damned well matters.
It's one thing to simply err in one's grasp of history. I'm probably not the person to go to on the finer details of the Pelopennesian Wars, for example, but my errors would be inconsequential and subject to the derision they deserve if I choose to spout off on that of which I know nothing, although if I "see differently" in the service of a dangerous agenda, much less call that agenda "Christian," I deserve every bit of condemnation I incur. I won't call you "evil" for it, but I struggle with how to tell you how little I care that you and others consider me "intolerant" for condemning Wilson and his lackeys (a term I used in speaking to him by phone three weeks ago, just in case you think I feel like it's OK to just scurry around Vision 2020 rather than engage courageously with him personally. Been there, done that, will do it again any time he's up to it).
I laugh when, in the movie "Best In Show," the announcer intones that Columbus came over on the Mayflower. Such ignorance is funny in reel life, sad in real life. But I would urge you to really consider if all "different thinking" on historical, social, political, and religious matters is benign and worthy of defense.
In this case, we have an indefensible malignancy of the worst type -- that which invokes God. Its spread won't be because I and a few others stayed silent in its metastasizing.
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:51:40 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "We are the answer"
If members of Christ Church were going around enslaving people, you
might have a point. As it is, they simply think that the historical
facts of slavery differ from what's normally understood by
historians. I'm not comfortable ostracizing a group merely because
of what they think about something. That seems to be the main point
of contention, here.
There is a huge difference between murdering a person based solely
on their race or culture, and thinking, well, whatever it is that
the Christ Churchers think exactly about slavery in the Old South.
Or, more simply, between murdering anyone for any reason and
thinking thoughts others find offensive.
Paul
On 03/30/2012 07:49 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:
Paul,
You are
right that everyone needs to
work on caring and accepting their neighbors for the people
that they are. However, it should concern you that some
people do not acknowledge
the human atrocities
that occurred
with the slavery of a race not that long ago. A race that
even today feels and sufferers the consequences
of those events. It is in effect racist to not acknowledge the human suffering and
violations that occurred
to a race of people. If we can ignore or deceive
others into ignoring one of the greatest human rights
violations in the United States, than we can easily ignore
all other human rights violations. Which, in effect, puts
all humans, including yourself and everyone you care about
at risk. Where one person's rights are ignored and violated,
everyone else can
be violated as well. That should concern you. It is not the
practice or belief in a religion that people object to, but
rather the practice of racist preaching that the violation
of human rights that occurred to Blacks in
the United States really didn't happen that people are
objecting to.
Donovan
Arnold
From:
Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
To:
Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
Cc:
vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent:
Friday, March 30, 2012 6:59 PM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] "We are the answer"
If black teenagers wearing hoods were being harassed here in
Moscow, I'd
be suggesting that we should all be more tolerant of others
on this
list. If Muslim women in Moscow were being harassed I'd be
suggesting
that we should all be more tolerant of each other. But if
one
particular faith is being singled out because of their
beliefs and some
bad blood between list members, I'm effectively shunned if I
suggest
that we be more tolerant of them.
What a world.
Paul
On 03/30/2012 02:25 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
> Visionaries:
>
> I know not all here would agree -- some choose to focus
on the "intolerance"
> of so-called Intoleristas
rather than on the public intolerance of bigoted
> groups that galvanized some of us to pull our
complacent heads from the sand
> -- but this eloquently and accurately reflects my
thoughts:
> "We must be active architects of a better country and a
better world.
> Silence in the face of bigotry and discrimination is
agreement and consent.
> We must challenge every instance of inequality, no
matter how small it is.
> While overcoming our history's dark side is not
pleasant, it is something we
> must actively do every day."
>
> Here's the full letter that was published in today's
Moscow-Pullman Daily
> News:
>
> Letter to the Editor
> We are the answer
> Posted: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:00 am | Updated: 8:22
am, Fri Mar 30, 2012.
>
> My heart is deeply grieved by the recent news that Shaima Alawadi, an Iraqi
> mother of five living in California was beaten to death
by a tire iron.
> Found on her body was a note that said, "Go back to
your own country. You're
> a terrorist." This incident shows the long-reaching
effects the political
> rhetoric and rancor of the past 10 years has had on the
American psyche. A
> spark of anger and hatred spurred by our popular
culture and political
> leaders has turned into a fire within the fringe of our
country.
>
> Gay youth are committing suicide due to relentless
intimidation and
> harassment. Travyon
Martin was gunned down for what some call "wearing a
> hood while black." And the murder of Alawadi. All point to
a startling
> problem. There is a dark side of American culture.
While it's underground,
> it's still there. A deep seated resentment of other
races, of people unlike
> us, lies in the hearts of many. This dark side exists
everywhere. I cannot
> count how many times I have heard racial, homophobic
and sexist slurs at
> sporting events, social gatherings, even in the work
place and classes. This
> isn't just a problem isolated to my community, but it
is ingrained within
> the very fabric of our society.
>
> It would be easy for us to give up hope, hope of a
better tomorrow, a
> tomorrow without wrathful hatred and reckless violence.
But we cannot. We
> are the answer to the problem. We must be active
architects of a better
> country and a better world. Silence in the face of
bigotry and
> discrimination is agreement and consent. We must
challenge every instance of
> inequality, no matter how small it is. While overcoming
our history's dark
> side is not pleasant, it is something we must actively
do every day.
>
>
> Derrick Skaug
> ASWSU
Vice-President Elect
> Pullman
>
> __________
>
> Indeed.
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for
good people to do
> nothing.
> ~ Edmund Burke
>
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
--
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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