[Vision2020] Same sex marriage

Tue Jul 17 23:07:29 PDT 2012

I might have a job for you Joe.  My brother-in-law is getting married in September in Lewiston and his fiance just posted this on Facebook 8 hours ago:

 Well
 everything is coming along good for the wedding, but we need to find 
someone to marry us. Does anyone know a anyone we could ask, we arent 
apart of any church, but i dont know any ministers or pastors that will 
do it without being part of the church, we are will pay. Any 
suggestions? Thanks in advance!Like · Dislike ·  · 8 hours ago via mobile · 

Note that this is a ho-hum opposite sex wedding.  I was really hoping that they would move their wedding later out in the month to Saturday September 22 at night so I could catch the Idaho / Wyoming football game when I come to town.  But the two of them tend to not give me the time of day, so I think they're just going to do what's in their own selfish interest. :)

-Scott

> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:52:20 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Same sex marriage
> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> CC: godshatter at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> 
> Good post. I'm sorry but I'm in a "philosophical" mood, so I've got to
> challenge everything.
> 
> Is there anyone who thinks that "churches should be forced to perform
> same sex weddings against their beliefs"? Suppose you want to get
> married by a Catholic priest. I image that one might accommodate you.
> But does that force anything upon the Catholic Church?
> 
> As I said, I have performed marriages and I'm willing to do it again
> (just contact me if you're interested). And if you'd like a religious
> ceremony, I can accommodate. But I'd hate to think that by doing so,
> I'd be forcing any particular church to do anything; I'd hate to think
> that my actions had anything to do with any particular church at all,
> even the church of which I am (through my online degree) a minister.
> Joe
> 
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for the response anyway Paul - I was really hoping you could just try
> > your best to take the indefensible side of keeping same sex marriage bans in
> > place.  I've racked my brain trying to think of even a single solitary -
> > even a stretch - of a reason to continue denying same sex couples and
> > families with same sex parents equal rights / benefits / protections of
> > married couples and I continue to just come up blank so I'm disappointed
> > that no one could step forward and enlighten me.
> >
> > In short, can anyone explain why same couples don't deserve to be as equally
> > miserable as married couples?  Also, for folks who are bent out of shape
> > about homo sex, the best way to get people to completely stop having sex
> > would be to encourage them to get married.  Thus, same sex marriage is a win
> > for everyone although I don't believe that churches should be forced to
> > perform same sex weddings against their beliefs.
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:22:20 -0700
> > From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> > To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> > CC: kmmos1 at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Same sex marriage
> >
> > On 07/15/2012 06:28 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
> >
> > Paul / Gary - can either of you give it a shot at playing devil's advocate?
> > And by that, I mean a good shot, not just some half assed, weak, grasping at
> > straws attempt.
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> >
> > I really can't.  If I had to attack gay marriage, I would do it by attacking
> > the very concept of marriage as a whole.  It's a religious institution that
> > has no place in a presumed secular society.  It's formed straight out of
> > tradition, and the world has moved on.  Every secular benefit given to
> > married couples should be individually scrutinized in order to determine if
> > it could in fact be given out to others as well as married couples.  Why
> > shouldn't your best friend be able to make medical decisions on your behalf
> > if you are incapacitated, if it's been setup that way before-hand?  Why
> > shouldn't any number of people be able to sign up to jointly care for a
> > child, receiving tax benefits in exchange?  And so on.
> >
> > Gay marriages would be just as wrong as... non-gay marriages.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 10:46:06 -0700
> > From: kmmos1 at frontier.com
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Same sex marriage
> >
> > On 7/15/2012 4:37 AM, Donovan Arnold wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, Ken, but that is one of the silliest arguments I have heard. Marriage
> > has nothing to do with if people have children or not.
> >
> >
> > Marriage has to do with, among other things, with whether people have social
> > permission to procreate. Same-sex marriage implies such permission is not
> > granted to individuals within that relationship.
> >
> > You can be married and have no children and be not married and have 10
> > children.
> >
> >
> > Of course. Physical biology is not prevented by marriage or its absence.
> >
> > Many same sex couples can, do, will, and want to have children, and make
> > damn good parents too.
> >
> >
> > Likewise true.
> >
> > It is actually easier to have more children if you are NOT in a monogamous
> > relationship for both genders.
> >
> >
> > If a person lacks a spouse who would disapprove of extramarital sexuality,
> > and if that person cares not whether pregnancy results from personal sexual
> > activity, then more children may result.
> >
> > A man is more able to impregnate more women, and a woman would be more
> > likely to get pregnant with more men.
> >
> >
> > Marriage may have a counter-intuitive prophylactic effect as a result of
> > each partner encouraging more responsibility from the other without regard
> > to partner gender.
> >
> > More irresponsible, less thoughtful, people may cause more pregnancies
> > without regard to partner gender if they are not monogamous. If they are
> > monogamous fewer pregnancies will result within same-sex couples, whether or
> > not they are married.
> >
> > People should not, or be socially engineered to marry a person of a gender
> > they are not attracted to, that is unfair to one or both of them.
> >
> >
> > I am not suggesting unwanted marriage. Remaining single is just as available
> > an option.
> >
> > As well as others that could be deprived of their true affections and love.
> >
> > Marriage should ALWAYS be about two consenting adults who love each other.
> >
> >
> > How romantic. And in many cases, how unrealistic. Over the centuries
> > marriage has more often been an arrangement implementing social
> > practicalities rather than love. Given the intractable societal burdens of
> > overpopulation, societal concerns may well trump personal preferences for
> > multiple reasons -- food sharing, housing sharing, and many facets of more
> > efficient societal use of many limited resources.
> >
> > And nothing else. People deserve nothing less.
> >
> >
> > Whether or not our current mixture of preferences will survive increasing
> > population pressures is both uncertain and unlikely.
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
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