[Vision2020] Same sex marriage

Tue Jul 17 22:38:10 PDT 2012

Thanks for the response anyway Paul - I was really hoping you could just try your best to take the indefensible side of keeping same sex marriage bans in place.  I've racked my brain trying to think of even a single solitary - even a stretch - of a reason to continue denying same sex couples and families with same sex parents equal rights / benefits / protections of married couples and I continue to just come up blank so I'm disappointed that no one could step forward and enlighten me.

In short, can anyone explain why same couples don't deserve to be as equally miserable as married couples?  Also, for folks who are bent out of shape about homo sex, the best way to get people to completely stop having sex would be to encourage them to get married.  Thus, same sex marriage is a win for everyone although I don't believe that churches should be forced to perform same sex weddings against their beliefs.

-Scott

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:22:20 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
CC: kmmos1 at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Same sex marriage

    On 07/15/2012 06:28 PM, Scott Dredge
      wrote:

      Paul / Gary - can either of you give it a shot at
        playing devil's advocate?  And by that, I mean a good shot, not
        just some half assed, weak, grasping at straws attempt.

        -Scott

    I really can't.  If I had to attack gay marriage, I would do it by
    attacking the very concept of marriage as a whole.  It's a religious
    institution that has no place in a presumed secular society.  It's
    formed straight out of tradition, and the world has moved on.  Every
    secular benefit given to married couples should be individually
    scrutinized in order to determine if it could in fact be given out
    to others as well as married couples.  Why shouldn't your best
    friend be able to make medical decisions on your behalf if you are
    incapacitated, if it's been setup that way before-hand?  Why
    shouldn't any number of people be able to sign up to jointly care
    for a child, receiving tax benefits in exchange?  And so on.

    Gay marriages would be just as wrong as... non-gay marriages.

    Paul

          Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 10:46:06 -0700

          From: kmmos1 at frontier.com

          To: vision2020 at moscow.com

          Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Same sex marriage

          On 7/15/2012 4:37 AM, Donovan
            Arnold wrote:

              Sorry,
                  Ken, but that is one of the silliest arguments I have
                  heard. Marriage has nothing to do with if people have
                  children or not.

          Marriage has to do with, among other things, with whether
          people have social permission to procreate. Same-sex marriage
          implies such permission is not granted to individuals within
          that relationship.

              You
                  can be married and have no children and be not married
                  and have 10 children.

          Of course. Physical biology is not prevented by marriage or
          its absence.

              Many same
                  sex couples can, do, will, and want to have children,
                  and make damn good parents too. 

          Likewise true.

              It is
                  actually easier to have more children if you are NOT
                  in a monogamous relationship for both genders.

          If a person lacks a spouse who would disapprove of
          extramarital sexuality, and if that person cares not whether
          pregnancy results from personal sexual activity, then more
          children may result.

              A man is
                  more able to impregnate more women, and a woman would
                  be more likely to get pregnant with
                  more men.

          Marriage may have a counter-intuitive prophylactic effect as a
          result of each partner encouraging more responsibility from
          the other without regard to partner gender.

          More irresponsible, less thoughtful, people may cause more
          pregnancies without regard to partner gender if they are not
          monogamous. If they are monogamous fewer pregnancies will
          result within same-sex couples, whether or not they are
          married.

              People
                  should not, or be socially engineered to marry a
                  person of a gender they are not attracted to, that is
                  unfair to one or both of them.

          I am not suggesting unwanted marriage. Remaining single is
          just as available an option.

              As well
                  as others that could be deprived of their true
                  affections and love. 

              Marriage
                  should ALWAYS be about two consenting adults who love
                  each other.

          How romantic. And in many cases, how unrealistic. Over the
          centuries marriage has more often been an arrangement
          implementing social practicalities rather than love. Given the
          intractable societal burdens of overpopulation, societal
          concerns may well trump personal preferences for multiple
          reasons -- food sharing, housing sharing, and many facets of
          more efficient societal use of many limited resources.

              And
                  nothing else. People deserve nothing less.

          Whether or not our current mixture of preferences will survive
          increasing population pressures is both uncertain and
          unlikely.

          Ken

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