[Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sat Jul 14 09:20:11 PDT 2012
We're talking about a historical display in which the use of a flag from
that time period simply as a prop makes sense. Do you think it was the
intent of the historical society to offend people who... are easily
offended by this symbol?
You seem to be arguing that we shouldn't, for example, show an image of
a swastika on a web page that explains what the swastika is. Are these
images *so* offensive that we need to eradicate them from our society
completely? If so, how do you plan on getting every single person
on-board with this?
I just think that the right not to be offended is subordinate to the
right to free expression. Of course, we're talking about the Courthouse
here which brings in different issues, I realize. But generally, I
think this is true.
I'll leave it to the historical society or whoever it was that put up
this display to defend it's educational value.
I just don't understand the vehemence here. I get offended occasionally
by things I see on TV or signs or the occasional commercial or
advertisement I run across. When that happens, I shake my head at their
foolishness, recognize that people have other viewpoints and the right
to express them, and move on without creating a big stink about it. In
my opinion, if everybody did that we'd live in a much less
confrontational and less divisive world.
Paul
On 07/14/2012 07:17 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
> You are frustrating to talk to. First, it was a bit of a joke. Also,
> you're not tracking the quantity terms: all, some, etc. My view is not
> that ALL herpes displays should be banned. Of course such things COULD
> be helpful. But when and where and for what purpose? IN GENERAL were
> someone to say "There's a herpes display downtown" and it turned out
> not to be at Gritman, it should make you scratch your head.
>
> I think Idaho and our town in particular is not in need of a
> confederacy flag on display. Has anyone forgotten about the civil war?
> Is there anyone who might see the display who would learn something
> new? I just don't see it. The educational value of the display is
> little or nothing. You haven't done much to convince me otherwise. Nor
> do you seem to care about the particulars. Your view seems to be that
> we need to display offensive symbols, or at the very least that every
> display of everything offensive symbol needs to be defended, least we
> lose our God-given right to offend!
>
> That is an odd, curious view. Not every instance of every offensive
> symbol has educational value. I think the burden is on the defender of
> the display of the offensive symbol to show that it has educational
> value that overrides its offensive nature and you're not doing that
> because you're speaking in generalities and not about the particular
> display itself.
>
> My view is that there is NO general defense of the display of
> offensive symbols. If someone wants to educate that is fine but I
> don't see the educational value in this case. You don't seem to care.
>
> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>> Why not put up a display about (for example) herpes? What it is, how
>> you get it, how you can recognize it, how you can avoid it, what are
>> the available treatments for it, etc. If some society did put up a
>> display about this in the Courthouse, I certainly wouldn't object to
>> it. It's educational, it's a problem that education can help with,
>> an so forth. What it would not be, presumably, is some kind of
>> glorification of the state of having herpes.
>>
>> I also object to the simple idea that any display of the Confederate
>> flag in any context is always meant as support for the idea of
>> slavery. I can't think of a symbol that so immediately makes you
>> think "Civil War" than either the Confederate flag or the Union Jack,
>> so (not being subject to being offended every time I turn around)
>> finding one in a display that discusses some aspect of the Civil War
>> makes perfect sense to me.
>>
>> I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to live in a world
>> where they would know what the Civil War was about and what herpes
>> is. Having more information about incest (think genetic reasons not
>> to do it) and rodent infestations (possible health concerns) wouldn't
>> hurt them, either.
>>
>> I also object to your snarky "Well, most of us at least." line.
>> Arguing for the use of the Confederate flag as a device for
>> decorating a display about something that is connected to that war
>> does not mean that I don't know about the ills of slavery. Do you
>> really think I treat slavery as something other than an evil upon our
>> society?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 07/13/2012 01:03 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>> Why not a display about herpes, or incest, or rodent infestation?
>>> Wouldn't want to censor those, would we? After all, we don't want to
>>> sugarcoat the horrible world we live in!
>>>
>>> What good does it do? None. We all know about the ills of slavery.
>>> Well, most of us at least. Joe
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Paul Rumelhart
>>> <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> One doesn't nuance slavery, but we shouldn't sugar-coat it
>>> either. It's a historical display. We shouldn't be
>>> self-censoring it because people might find the confederate flag
>>> offensive. Some people would find the union flag offensive, if
>>> they had ancestors that died on that side of the war.
>>>
>>> As a community, we should not be afraid to look at this display
>>> unflinchingly and remember the positives and the negatives of
>>> that conflict. Be very, very careful about self-censoring our
>>> history. As a country we have done some pretty bad things, to
>>> each other and to people outside our borders, and those things
>>> should be remembered.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On 07/13/2012 11:56 AM, Rosemary Huskey wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would call a confederate flag placed in a display about a
>>>> confederate soldier with ties to Latah County A Celebratory Nod
>>>> to Racism. Help me to understand how one nuances slavery,
>>>> Paul. If you are under the impression that tolerance of the
>>>> intolerable is a badge of liberal honor, then I assume you
>>>> understand completely why I despise and mock the latte sipping
>>>> liberals that are so thick on the ground in Latah County.
>>>>
>>>> Rose
>>>>
>>>> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>>> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
>>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
>>>> Rumelhart
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 13, 2012 11:35 AM
>>>> *To:* Joe Campbell
>>>> *Cc:* viz
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County
>>>> . . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Would you call placing a confederate flag in a cabinet housing
>>>> an historical display about a confederate soldier that has a
>>>> tie to Latah County in the Latah County Courthouse indefensible?
>>>>
>>>> Because I wouldn't.
>>>>
>>>> Also, the one-dimensional liberal / conservative axis is
>>>> failing us here. We need more nuance in American politics than
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> On 07/13/2012 09:47 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think it is best to avoid defending the indefensible,
>>>> anything to do with slavery in particular. There are A LOT
>>>> of better uses for your words and your motivations will
>>>> always be questioned -- no matter how many times you call
>>>> yourself a liberal.
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:33 AM, Paul Rumelhart
>>>> <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You have to walk on eggshells around here, lest your
>>>> honest opinion be mistaken as an attack on all things
>>>> liberal. Which is ironic because I consider myself to
>>>> be a liberal (at least on some issues). And I hate
>>>> walking on eggshells.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> On 07/13/2012 12:25 AM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wow! - welcome back to the V Paul. You're a much
>>>> better man than I am! [note to myself: never share
>>>> a painful personal experience trying to make a
>>>> perfectly valid point on the V lest you be savagely
>>>> crucified by 'holier than thou' Tom and Donovan)
>>>>
>>>> <mime-attachment.jpg>- <(null)>----------------
>>>> <(null)>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:13:51 -0700
>>>> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>>>> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate
>>>> Latah County . . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At the risk of sending everyone into an apoplectic
>>>> rage by suggesting that they may be over-reacting,
>>>> exactly what is the purpose of that display? Is
>>>> it, perhaps, to display information on a historical
>>>> time, event, or person connected to the Civil War?
>>>> If so, then having a confederate flag in the
>>>> display might make sense. Also, trying to imply
>>>> that the US and State flags are unimportant because
>>>> they placed a table in front of them with a box on
>>>> it seems a bit of a stretch.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> On 07/12/2012 01:17 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "If not us, who?
>>>>
>>>> If not now, when?"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Unknown
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step
>>>> Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse
>>>> since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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