[Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .

Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Sat Jul 14 07:17:49 PDT 2012 

You are frustrating to talk to. First, it was a bit of a joke. Also, you're not tracking the quantity terms: all, some, etc. My view is not that ALL herpes displays should be banned. Of course such things COULD be helpful. But when and where and for what purpose? IN GENERAL were someone to say "There's a herpes display downtown" and it turned out not to be at Gritman, it should make you scratch your head.

I think Idaho and our town in particular is not in need of a confederacy flag on display. Has anyone forgotten about the civil war? Is there anyone who might see the display who would learn something new? I just don't see it. The educational value of the display is little or nothing. You haven't done much to convince me otherwise. Nor do you seem to care about the particulars. Your view seems to be that we need to display offensive symbols, or at the very least that every display of everything offensive symbol needs to be defended, least we lose our God-given right to offend!

That is an odd, curious view. Not every instance of every offensive symbol has educational value. I think the burden is on the defender of the display of the offensive symbol to show that it has educational value that overrides its offensive nature and you're not doing that because you're speaking in generalities and not about the particular display itself. 

My view is that there is NO general defense of the display of offensive symbols. If someone wants to educate that is fine but I don't see the educational value in this case. You don't seem to care.

On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> Why not put up a display about (for example) herpes?  What it is, how you get it, how you can recognize it, how you can avoid it, what are the available treatments for it, etc.  If some society did put up a display about this in the Courthouse, I certainly wouldn't object to it.  It's educational, it's a problem that education can help with, an so forth.  What it would not be, presumably, is some kind of glorification of the state of having herpes.
> 
> I also object to the simple idea that any display of the Confederate flag in any context is always meant as support for the idea of slavery.  I can't think of a symbol that so immediately makes you think "Civil War" than either the Confederate flag or the Union Jack, so (not being subject to being offended every time I turn around) finding one in a display that discusses some aspect of the Civil War makes perfect sense to me.  
> 
> I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to live in a world where they would know what the Civil War was about and what herpes is.  Having more information about incest (think genetic reasons not to do it) and rodent infestations (possible health concerns) wouldn't hurt them, either.
> 
> I also object to your snarky "Well, most of us at least." line.  Arguing for the use of the Confederate flag as a device for decorating a display about something that is connected to that war does not mean that I don't know about the ills of slavery.  Do you really think I treat slavery as something other than an evil upon our society?  
> 
> Paul
> 
> On 07/13/2012 01:03 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>> Why not a display about herpes, or incest, or rodent infestation? Wouldn't want to censor those, would we? After all, we don't want to sugarcoat the horrible world we live in!  
>> 
>> What good does it do? None. We all know about the ills of slavery. Well, most of us at least. Joe
>> 
>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> One doesn't nuance slavery, but we shouldn't sugar-coat it either.  It's a historical display.  We shouldn't be self-censoring it because people might find the confederate flag offensive.  Some people would find the union flag offensive, if they had ancestors that died on that side of the war.
>> 
>> As a community, we should not be afraid to look at this display unflinchingly and remember the positives and the negatives of that conflict.  Be very, very careful about self-censoring our history.  As a country we have done some pretty bad things, to each other and to people outside our borders, and those things should be remembered.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> On 07/13/2012 11:56 AM, Rosemary Huskey wrote:
>>> I  would call a confederate flag placed in a display about a confederate soldier with ties to Latah County A Celebratory Nod to Racism.   Help me to understand how one nuances slavery, Paul.  If you are under the impression that tolerance of the intolerable is a badge of liberal honor, then I assume you understand completely why I despise and mock the latte sipping liberals that are so thick on the ground in Latah County. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Rose
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:35 AM
>>> To: Joe Campbell
>>> Cc: viz
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Would you call placing a confederate flag in a cabinet housing an historical display about a confederate soldier that has a tie to Latah County in the Latah County Courthouse indefensible?
>>> 
>>> Because I wouldn't.
>>> 
>>> Also, the one-dimensional liberal / conservative axis is failing us here.  We need more nuance in American politics than that.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> On 07/13/2012 09:47 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think it is best to avoid defending the indefensible, anything to do with slavery in particular. There are A LOT of better uses for your words and your motivations will always be questioned -- no matter how many times you call yourself a liberal.
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:33 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> You have to walk on eggshells around here, lest your honest opinion be mistaken as an attack on all things liberal.  Which is ironic because I consider myself to be a liberal (at least on some issues).  And I hate walking on eggshells.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> On 07/13/2012 12:25 AM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow! - welcome back to the V Paul.  You're a much better man than I am! [note to myself: never share a painful personal experience trying to make a perfectly valid point on the V lest you be savagely crucified by 'holier than thou' Tom and Donovan)
>>> 
>>> <mime-attachment.jpg>- <(null)>---------------- <(null)>
>>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:13:51 -0700
>>> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>>> To: thansen at moscow.com
>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At the risk of sending everyone into an apoplectic rage by suggesting that they may be over-reacting, exactly what is the purpose of that display?  Is it,                                 perhaps, to display information on a historical time, event, or person connected to the Civil War?  If so, then having a confederate flag in the display might make sense.  Also, trying to imply that the US and State flags are unimportant because they placed a table in front of them with a box on it seems a bit of a stretch.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> On 07/12/2012 01:17 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>  
>>> Tom Hansen
>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>  
>>> "If not us, who?
>>> If not now, when?"
>>>  
>>> - Unknown
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
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>>>  
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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