[Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .

Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Sat Jul 14 01:05:12 PDT 2012 

I think a better argument for not using the "Dixie Flag" in the display case of a historic presentation of a Confederate solider is that it wasn't used in the Civil War. That guy probably never saw that flag in his life. It was the Battle Flag of the Northern Virginian Confederate Army. I would think that Confederate soldier would want the flag of his state and regiment used, not the one in a Hank Williams Jr concert in Tennessee or stolen from the "Dukes of Hazard".
 
Donovan J. Arnold

From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
To: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> 
Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .



Why not put up a display about (for example) herpes?  What it is, how you get it, how you can recognize it, how you can avoid it, what are the available treatments for it, etc.  If some society did put up a display about this in the Courthouse, I certainly wouldn't object to it.  It's educational, it's a problem that education can help with, an so forth.  What it would not be, presumably, is some kind of glorification of the state of having herpes.

I also object to the simple idea that any display of the Confederate flag in any context is always meant as support for the idea of slavery.  I can't think of a symbol that so immediately makes you think "Civil War" than either the Confederate flag or the Union Jack, so (not being subject to being offended every time I turn around) finding one in a display that discusses some aspect of the Civil War makes perfect sense to me.  

I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to live in a world where they would know what the Civil War was about and what herpes is.  Having more information about incest (think genetic reasons not to do it) and rodent infestations (possible health concerns) wouldn't hurt them, either.

I also object to your snarky "Well, most of us at least." line.  Arguing for the use of the Confederate flag as a device for decorating a display about something that is connected to that war does not mean that I don't know about the ills of slavery.  Do you really think I treat slavery as something other than an evil upon our society?  

Paul

On 07/13/2012 01:03 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:

Why not a display about herpes, or incest, or rodent infestation? Wouldn't want to censor those, would we? After all, we don't want to sugarcoat the horrible world we live in!  
>
>What good does it do? None. We all know about the ills of slavery. Well, most of us at least. Joe
>
>
>On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>One doesn't nuance slavery, but we shouldn't sugar-coat it either.  It's a historical display.  We shouldn't be self-censoring it because people might find the confederate flag offensive.  Some people would find the union flag offensive, if they had ancestors that died on that side of the war.
>>
>>As a community, we should not be afraid to look at this display unflinchingly and remember the positives and the negatives of that conflict.  Be very, very careful about self-censoring our history.  As a country we have done some pretty bad things, to each other and to people outside our borders, and those things should be remembered.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>On 07/13/2012 11:56 AM, Rosemary Huskey wrote:
>>
>>I  would call a confederate flag placed in a display about a confederate soldier with ties to Latah County A Celebratory Nod to Racism.   Help me to understand how one nuances slavery, Paul.  If you are under the impression that tolerance of the intolerable is a badge of liberal honor, then I assume you understand completely why I despise and mock the latte sipping liberals that are so thick on the ground in Latah County.  
>>> 
>>>Rose
>>> 
>>>From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
>>>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:35 AM
>>>To: Joe Campbell
>>>Cc: viz
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .
>>> 
>>>
>>>Would you call placing a confederate flag in a cabinet housing an historical display about a confederate soldier that has a tie to Latah County in the Latah County Courthouse indefensible?
>>>
>>>Because I wouldn't.
>>>
>>>Also, the one-dimensional liberal / conservative axis is failing us here.  We need more nuance in American politics than that.
>>>
>>>Paul
>>>
>>>On 07/13/2012 09:47 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>>I think it is best to avoid defending the indefensible, anything to do with slavery in particular. There are A LOT of better uses for your words and your motivations will always be questioned -- no matter how many times you call yourself a liberal.
>>>>
>>>>Joe
>>>>
>>>>On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:33 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>You have to walk on eggshells around here, lest your honest opinion be mistaken as an attack on all things liberal.  Which is ironic because I consider myself to be a liberal (at least on some issues).  And I hate walking on eggshells.
>>>>>
>>>>>Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>On 07/13/2012 12:25 AM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>>>>>Wow! - welcome back to the V Paul.  You're a much better man than I am! [note to myself: never share a painful personal experience trying to make a perfectly valid point on the V lest you be savagely crucified by 'holier than thou' Tom and Donovan)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- ---------------- 
>>>>>>Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:13:51 -0700
>>>>>>From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>>>>>>To: thansen at moscow.com
>>>>>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At the risk of sending everyone into an apoplectic rage by suggesting that they may be over-reacting, exactly what is the purpose of that display?  Is it, perhaps, to display information on a historical time, event, or person connected to the Civil War?  If so, then having a confederate flag in the display might make sense.  Also, trying to imply that the US and State flags are unimportant because they placed a table in front of them with a box on it seems a bit of a stretch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 07/12/2012 01:17 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>Tom Hansen
>>>>>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>"If not us, who?
>>>>>>>If not now, when?"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>- Unknown
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>>>               http://www.fsr.net/
>>>>>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
>>>>> 
>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>              http://www.fsr.net/
>>>>>         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>=======================================================
>>> 
>>
>>
>




Why not put up a display about (for example) herpes?  What it is, how you get it, how you can recognize it, how you can avoid it, what are the available treatments for it, etc.  If some society did put up a display about this in the Courthouse, I certainly wouldn't object to it.  It's educational, it's a problem that education can help with, an so forth.  What it would not be, presumably, is some kind of glorification of the state of having herpes.

I also object to the simple idea that any display of the Confederate flag in any context is always meant as support for the idea of slavery.  I can't think of a symbol that so immediately makes you think "Civil War" than either the Confederate flag or the Union Jack, so (not being subject to being offended every time I turn around) finding one in a display that discusses some aspect of the Civil War makes perfect sense to me.  

I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to live in a world where they would know what the Civil War was about and what herpes is.

Paul

On 07/13/2012 01:03 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:

Why not a display about herpes, or incest, or rodent infestation? Wouldn't want to censor those, would we? After all, we don't want to sugarcoat the horrible world we live in!  
>
>What good does it do? None. We all know about the ills of slavery. Well, most of us at least. Joe
>
>
>On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>One doesn't nuance slavery, but we shouldn't sugar-coat it either.  It's a historical display.  We shouldn't be self-censoring it because people might find the confederate flag offensive.  Some people would find the union flag offensive, if they had ancestors that died on that side of the war.
>>
>>As a community, we should not be afraid to look at this display unflinchingly and remember the positives and the negatives of that conflict.  Be very, very careful about self-censoring our history.  As a country we have done some pretty bad things, to each other and to people outside our borders, and those things should be remembered.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>On 07/13/2012 11:56 AM, Rosemary Huskey wrote:
>>
>>I  would call a confederate flag placed in a display about a confederate soldier with ties to Latah County A Celebratory Nod to Racism.   Help me to understand how one nuances slavery, Paul.  If you are under the impression that tolerance of the intolerable is a badge of liberal honor, then I assume you understand completely why I despise and mock the latte sipping liberals that are so thick on the ground in Latah County.  
>>> 
>>>Rose
>>> 
>>>From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
>>>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:35 AM
>>>To: Joe Campbell
>>>Cc: viz
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .
>>> 
>>>
>>>Would you call placing a confederate flag in a cabinet housing an historical display about a confederate soldier that has a tie to Latah County in the Latah County Courthouse indefensible?
>>>
>>>Because I wouldn't.
>>>
>>>Also, the one-dimensional liberal / conservative axis is failing us here.  We need more nuance in American politics than that.
>>>
>>>Paul
>>>
>>>On 07/13/2012 09:47 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>>I think it is best to avoid defending the indefensible, anything to do with slavery in particular. There are A LOT of better uses for your words and your motivations will always be questioned -- no matter how many times you call yourself a liberal.
>>>>
>>>>Joe
>>>>
>>>>On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:33 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>You have to walk on eggshells around here, lest your honest opinion be mistaken as an attack on all things liberal.  Which is ironic because I consider myself to be a liberal (at least on some issues).  And I hate walking on eggshells.
>>>>>
>>>>>Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>On 07/13/2012 12:25 AM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>>>>>Wow! - welcome back to the V Paul.  You're a much better man than I am! [note to myself: never share a painful personal experience trying to make a perfectly valid point on the V lest you be savagely crucified by 'holier than thou' Tom and Donovan)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- ---------------- 
>>>>>>Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:13:51 -0700
>>>>>>From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>>>>>>To: thansen at moscow.com
>>>>>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At the risk of sending everyone into an apoplectic rage by suggesting that they may be over-reacting, exactly what is the purpose of that display?  Is it, perhaps, to display information on a historical time, event, or person connected to the Civil War?  If so, then having a confederate flag in the display might make sense.  Also, trying to imply that the US and State flags are unimportant because they placed a table in front of them with a box on it seems a bit of a stretch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 07/12/2012 01:17 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>Tom Hansen
>>>>>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>"If not us, who?
>>>>>>>If not now, when?"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>- Unknown
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>>>               http://www.fsr.net/
>>>>>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
>>>>> 
>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>              http://www.fsr.net/
>>>>>         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>=======================================================
>>> 
>>
>>
>


=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net/
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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