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We're talking about a historical display in which the use of a
flag from that time period simply as a prop makes sense. Do you
think it was the intent of the historical society to offend people
who... are easily offended by this symbol?<br>
<br>
You seem to be arguing that we shouldn't, for example, show an
image of a swastika on a web page that explains what the swastika
is. Are these images *so* offensive that we need to eradicate
them from our society completely? If so, how do you plan on
getting every single person on-board with this?<br>
<br>
I just think that the right not to be offended is subordinate to
the right to free expression. Of course, we're talking about the
Courthouse here which brings in different issues, I realize. But
generally, I think this is true.<br>
<br>
I'll leave it to the historical society or whoever it was that put
up this display to defend it's educational value. <br>
<br>
I just don't understand the vehemence here. I get offended
occasionally by things I see on TV or signs or the occasional
commercial or advertisement I run across. When that happens, I
shake my head at their foolishness, recognize that people have
other viewpoints and the right to express them, and move on
without creating a big stink about it. In my opinion, if
everybody did that we'd live in a much less confrontational and
less divisive world.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/14/2012 07:17 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:C889DFF0-EAEA-4188-9C35-8933A2A4E0A8@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>You are frustrating to talk to. First, it was a bit of a
joke. Also, you're not tracking the quantity terms: all, some,
etc. My view is not that ALL herpes displays should be banned.
Of course such things COULD be helpful. But when and where and
for what purpose? IN GENERAL were someone to say "There's a
herpes display downtown" and it turned out not to be at Gritman,
it should make you scratch your head.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think Idaho and our town in particular is not in need of a
confederacy flag on display. Has anyone forgotten about the
civil war? Is there anyone who might see the display who would
learn something new? I just don't see it. The educational value
of the display is little or nothing. You haven't done much to
convince me otherwise. Nor do you seem to care about the
particulars. Your view seems to be that we need to display
offensive symbols, or at the very least that every display of
everything offensive symbol needs to be defended, least we lose
our God-given right to offend!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That is an odd, curious view. Not every instance of every
offensive symbol has educational value. I think the burden is on
the defender of the display of the offensive symbol to show that
it has educational value that overrides its offensive nature and
you're not doing that because you're speaking in generalities
and not about the particular display itself. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My view is that there is NO general defense of the display of
offensive symbols. If someone wants to educate that is fine but
I don't see the educational value in this case. You don't seem
to care.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
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Why not put up a display about (for example) herpes? What
it is, how you get it, how you can recognize it, how you can
avoid it, what are the available treatments for it, etc. If
some society did put up a display about this in the
Courthouse, I certainly wouldn't object to it. It's
educational, it's a problem that education can help with, an
so forth. What it would not be, presumably, is some kind of
glorification of the state of having herpes.<br>
<br>
I also object to the simple idea that any display of the
Confederate flag in any context is always meant as support
for the idea of slavery. I can't think of a symbol that so
immediately makes you think "Civil War" than either the
Confederate flag or the Union Jack, so (not being subject to
being offended every time I turn around) finding one in a
display that discusses some aspect of the Civil War makes
perfect sense to me. <br>
<br>
I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to live
in a world where they would know what the Civil War was
about and what herpes is. Having more information about
incest (think genetic reasons not to do it) and rodent
infestations (possible health concerns) wouldn't hurt them,
either.<br>
<br>
I also object to your snarky "Well, most of us at least."
line. Arguing for the use of the Confederate flag as a
device for decorating a display about something that is
connected to that war does not mean that I don't know about
the ills of slavery. Do you really think I treat slavery as
something other than an evil upon our society? <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/13/2012 01:03 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+fbP8wAL8JeuF-7M3ExeFo6cSyKhXYaw7fwaZqAhqu8D0Q4aw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Why not a display about herpes, or incest, or
rodent infestation? Wouldn't want to censor those, would we?
After all, we don't want to sugarcoat the horrible world we
live in! <br>
<br>
What good does it do? None. We all know about the ills of
slavery. Well, most of us at least. Joe<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:38 PM,
Paul Rumelhart <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><br>
One doesn't nuance slavery, but we shouldn't
sugar-coat it either. It's a historical display.
We shouldn't be self-censoring it because people
might find the confederate flag offensive. Some
people would find the union flag offensive, if they
had ancestors that died on that side of the war.<br>
<br>
As a community, we should not be afraid to look at
this display unflinchingly and remember the
positives and the negatives of that conflict. Be
very, very careful about self-censoring our
history. As a country we have done some pretty bad
things, to each other and to people outside our
borders, and those things should be remembered.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/13/2012 11:56 AM, Rosemary Huskey wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
would call a confederate flag placed in a
display about a confederate soldier with ties
to Latah County A Celebratory Nod to Racism.
Help me to understand how one nuances
slavery, Paul. If you are under the
impression that tolerance of the intolerable
is a badge of liberal honor, then I assume you
understand completely why I despise and mock
the latte sipping liberals that are so thick
on the ground in Latah County. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Rose</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com"
target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com"
target="_blank">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rumelhart<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 13, 2012 11:35
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joe Campbell<br>
<b>Cc:</b> viz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Welcome
to Confederate Latah County . . .</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Would you call placing a confederate flag in a
cabinet housing an historical display about a
confederate soldier that has a tie to Latah
County in the Latah County Courthouse
indefensible?<br>
<br>
Because I wouldn't.<br>
<br>
Also, the one-dimensional liberal /
conservative axis is failing us here. We need
more nuance in American politics than that.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/13/2012 09:47 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think it is best to
avoid defending the indefensible, anything
to do with slavery in particular. There are
A LOT of better uses for your words and your
motivations will always be questioned -- no
matter how many times you call yourself a
liberal.<br>
<br>
Joe</p>
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style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:33 AM, Paul Rumelhart
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
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<div>
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You have to walk on eggshells around
here, lest your honest opinion be
mistaken as an attack on all things
liberal. Which is ironic because I
consider myself to be a liberal (at
least on some issues). And I hate
walking on eggshells.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/13/2012 12:25 AM, Scott Dredge
wrote:</p>
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style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Wow! -
welcome back to the V Paul. You're a
much better man than I am! [note to
myself: never share a painful personal
experience trying to make a perfectly
valid point on the V lest you be
savagely crucified by 'holier than
thou' Tom and Donovan)<br>
<br>
<span style="border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in"><mime-attachment.jpg></span>-
<span style="border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in"><(null)></span>----------------
<span style="border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in"><(null)></span></p>
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<hr align="center" size="2"
width="100%"></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Date:
Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:13:51 -0700<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"
target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>
CC: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to
Confederate Latah County . . .</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
At the risk of sending everyone
into an apoplectic rage by
suggesting that they may be
over-reacting, exactly what is the
purpose of that display? Is it,
perhaps, to display information on
a historical time, event, or
person connected to the Civil
War? If so, then having a
confederate flag in the display
might make sense. Also, trying to
imply that the US and State flags
are unimportant because they
placed a table in front of them
with a box on it seems a bit of a
stretch.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/12/2012 01:17 PM, Tom Hansen
wrote:</p>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>Seeya round town, Moscow.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Tom Hansen</pre>
<pre>Moscow, Idaho</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>"If not us, who?</pre>
<pre>If not now, when?"</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>- Unknown</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>=======================================================</pre>
<pre> List services made available by First Step Internet,</pre>
<pre> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</pre>
<pre> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a></pre>
<pre> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></pre>
<pre>=======================================================</pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
=======================================================
List services made available by
First Step Internet, serving the
communities of the Palouse since
1994. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
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<p class="MsoNormal">=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step
Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsr.net"
target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================</p>
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<br>
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