[Vision2020] [Spam 3.90] Re: Concealed Hand Gun Laws
Gary Crabtree
moscowlocksmith at gmail.com
Thu Dec 13 09:57:23 PST 2012
"...I don't want to go through life
having killed someone, even in self-defense. It is easier to say
you'll get over it than it is to get over it."
I agree. But on the other hand, it's easier to get over having had to
utilize your legitamate right to self defense than it is to get over being
deceased.
g
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>wrote:
> Overall I agree with much of what you say but (a) if there are folks
> in prison that shouldn't be there, then there are likely criminals
> running free, and (b) personally I don't want to go through life
> having killed someone, even in self-defense. It is easier to say
> you'll get over it than it is to get over it.
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Gary Crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
> > The CWP makes no difference in the equation. If the situation is such
> that
> > you feel you must defend your life, you do and let the chips fall where
> they
> > may. What kind of idiot decides that it would be better to die then have
> to
> > give the police an explanation that seems tough to swallow.
> >
> > I'm not so sure that people get away with murder "all the time." I'm
> fairly
> > sure that there are people in prison in error. Life doesn't come with
> > guarantees. This would have to be the genesis of the trite old saw "
> better
> > to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.
> >
> > g
> >
> > From: Dan Carscallen
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:17 PM
> > To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Spam 3.90] Re: Concealed Hand Gun Laws
> >
> > Not sure if I'm creating another plot hole or what . . .
> >
> > You fired a warning shot and your attacker continued. Perhaps he was on
> bath
> > salts, or suffered from some mental malady, or was deaf(?)
> >
> > I would think your defense attorney would look into the history of your
> > "attacker", but your thought experiment is quite the sticky wicket
> >
> > DC
> >
> > On Dec 12, 2012, at 20:08, "Robert Dickow" <dickow at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >
> > I’ll try to cover all the plot holes in my thought experiment in order to
> > focus on the central issue: In the poorly-lit street I see a flash of
> light
> > on an object the perp is carrying, and I think it’s a knife. Only later I
> > learn that it is a flash of light off a reflective wrist band or jewelry
> > ornament. I fire the second shot (the first is a warning shot), at
> fairly
> > close range, after a brief struggle. There are no witnesses so it doesn’t
> > matter if I say that, yes, I yelled a lot. Let’s say I did but it only
> seems
> > to enrage the attacker. Let’s say the perp appears intoxicated or insane
> and
> > is making threatening remarks, frightening me. No witnesses, remember.
> I’m
> > the only one seeing and hearing her/him so there is no way to prove that
> > there were verbal threats or warnings. I might have escaped without
> firing,
> > and considered doing so, but it was a fast-moving situation, my escape
> > route appeared blocked by a nearby delivery van and some stacked
> > construction materials. There was indeed my first warning shot, but the
> perp
> > did not cease his/her advance. Through a fluke of luck the shoves and
> > punches I received did not leave a lasting mark on my person or clothing.
> >
> >
> >
> > It’s the ability to prove self-defense that I’m exploring, not
> principally
> > the gun thing per se. The item of self-defense could have been a knife or
> > just my bare hands I suppose. The point I’m hinting at is that maybe, one
> > had better have some good witnesses when defending oneself in certain
> > situations. However, a further implication is that if I had only a knife
> or
> > my bare hands for self-defense, I might have been more likely to attempt
> to
> > run away or continue fighting off the attacker.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob Dickow, troublemaker
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 7:27 PM
> > To: Robert Dickow
> > Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> > Subject: [Spam 3.90] Re: [Vision2020] Concealed Hand Gun Laws
> >
> >
> >
> > You say that the perp attacked you. How did (s)he attack you? Was it
> > sufficient to leave scars on your body?
> >
> >
> >
> > What was it about the perp that made you feel threatened, other than mere
> > surprise?
> >
> >
> >
> > Could you have escaped the situation without having to use a weapon?
> >
> >
> >
> > Under what circumstances was the fatal round fired? Accidental due to
> close
> > physical interaction? Could you have fired a warning shot or warned the
> > perp, "Hey sh*thead! I have a gun and I WILL use it unless you leave
> > RIGHT-FU*KING NOW!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
> >
> >
> >
> > "Moscow Cares"
> >
> > http://www.MoscowCares.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom Hansen, CPL (Commie Pinko Liberal)
> >
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 12, 2012, at 7:12 PM, "Robert Dickow" <dickow at turbonet.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am being serious now…
> >
> >
> >
> > This question has no doubt been addressed by various experts, but I just
> > thought up a situation that poses a question in my mind about ethics and
> > legal practicalities:
> >
> >
> >
> > Let’s say, for the sake of this thought experiment, that I own a handgun
> > that I carry, concealed, for my personal self defense. I find myself
> alone
> > on a dark city street and I am surprise attacked by a lone individual
> (whom
> > I perceive a mugger), who ignores my shouts and warnings. My shouts are
> not
> > noticed by anyone in the neighborhood. I shoot and kill the person, who I
> > feel is threatening my life. There are no witnesses or recorded phone
> calls
> > (unlike the Trayvon Martin shooting). I have not suffered any visible
> > injuries. How do I prove that I shot in self-defense?
> >
> >
> >
> > Offhand I don’t see how I can ‘prove’ self-defense. I can only claim
> self
> > defense. Why couldn’t the county prosecutor say ‘BS’ and have me put me
> away
> > for life? Is my thought experiment a situation in which I really can’t,
> or
> > should not, use the gun? Or, from another line of thinking, if I can
> simply
> > declare self-defense in a case like this, I could ‘legally’ go out and
> shoot
> > an innocent pedestrian on a whim, and I could get away with murder.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob Dickow, troublemaker
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
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> > ________________________________
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> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
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