[Vision2020] Whack-a-Dos On & Off the Council At It Again

Fri Dec 7 15:33:54 PST 2012

I'd have more of a problem with the billboard -- ethically speaking --
if it were directed at children rather than adults. But I don't think
that is the case.

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure exactly who the humanist billboard was intended to reach,
> according to the creator of the content or those who paid for its placement.
> You may very well be correct, that it was aimed at an adult audience.  This
> is likely.   And of course it is legally protected speech.  But legal does
> not always imply ethical or desirable, sometimes quite the opposite.
>
> I was assuming the complaints against this billboard might have had some
> basis in the life of the person complaining to the city council.  Perhaps
> their daughter, I think it was, read the billboard and was upset by it?  I
> don't know.  Because the billboard is intended for adults does not mean it
> cannot have an impact on children.
>
> Children are sometimes far more intelligent and aware than adults give them
> credit for, and some children indeed do want to give up childish beliefs,
> especially in our modern world which some with dismay think is forcing
> children to grow up far too fast, sacrificing childhood in the process.
>
> Anyway, I don't have a problem with the content of that billboard, but I can
> understand why someone would.
>
> ------------------------------------------
> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Ted,
>>
>> Do you really think that the posters are geared towards children as
>> opposed to adults? I thought the message was (to adults): Don't act
>> like children. Believing in God -- the claim says -- is like believing
>> in Santa Claus.
>>
>> Forgetting about whether or not what the poster says is true -- a
>> point about which we might disagree -- don't you think it is more
>> geared towards adults than children? Why would children what to give
>> up childish beliefs?
>>
>> Best, Joe
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > First Amendment, of course.  As though this needs to be emphasized and
>> > debated?  Scary!
>> >
>> > The responses against this humanist billboard might in part be explained
>> > by
>> > the fact that sometimes "the truth hurts," as it's said.  And given the
>> > anti-scientific intellectual brainwashing (on evolution, age of the
>> > Earth,
>> > sexuality issues, anthropogenic global warming, et. al.) that many
>> > religions
>> > inflict upon children, which I consider a form of child abuse, perhaps
>> > there
>> > is a need to counterbalance this form of "education," which might in
>> > part be
>> > the intention of those paying for the billboard.
>> >
>> > But to take the other side, if someone put up a billboard aimed at 4
>> > year
>> > olds enlightening them to the truth that Santa Claus is a fantasy, some
>> > might consider this to be a cruel robbing of children of innocent
>> > childhood
>> > fantasy.
>> >
>> > To some children, religious concepts or fantasies are a source of
>> > comfort.
>> >
>> > I recall feeling comforted by my "guardian angel" when I was a child,
>> > though
>> > there is no such entity, that I know of... On the other hand, questions
>> > about the safety of an environment where a child would need a "guardian
>> > angel" are a clue regarding what motivates human beings to indulge in
>> > religious fantasies about a world they do not understand and find
>> > threatening.
>> >
>> > I think it likely that some religious concepts have their origins in
>> > attempts in less scientific less modern times to comprehend and control
>> > a
>> > world humans did not understand and thus sought "supernatural"
>> > explanations.
>> > ------------------------------------------
>> > Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> To me, the most hilarious part of the article was "Throw the Evidence
>> >> Away"
>> >> Carscallen thinking he's in any position to call anyone or anything
>> >> else
>> >> "classless."  Oh, pot -- kettle is looking for you  :-)
>> >>
>> >> From Tuesday's Daily News:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Councilors reaffirm 1st Amendment rights of Humanists
>> >>
>> >>  By Brandon Macz, Daily News staff writer | Posted: Tuesday, December
>> >> 4,
>> >> 2012 12:00 am
>> >>
>> >> A Moscow resident took city councilors to task a second time in a
>> >> separation
>> >> of church and state and marketing issue regarding an American Humanist
>> >> Association billboard he says has caused his young daughter harm.
>> >>
>> >> Judd Wilson first approached the council during its last meeting to
>> >> complain
>> >> about the sign at the southern end of town that states, "I'm getting a
>> >> bit
>> >> too old for imaginary friends," and depicts a young girl on it. This
>> >> time
>> >> he
>> >> said he took offense to receiving no response from the city save for
>> >> its
>> >> attorney Randy Fife, whom he referred to as "The Lawyer."
>> >>
>> >> Wilson said councilors lacked sympathy for the impassioned speech he
>> >> gave
>> >> about a medical emergency regarding his daughter and how his Christian
>> >> God
>> >> saved her life nor had they done anything to discourage billboards
>> >> attacking
>> >> religious faith from being erected in the city. He added Mayor Nancy
>> >> Chaney
>> >> had supported proclamations positive toward homosexuality, but never
>> >> for
>> >> Christianity.
>> >>
>> >> "It seems you have no interest in doing anything for my daughter,"
>> >> Wilson
>> >> said.
>> >>
>> >> Council President Dan Carscallen repeated Fife's public response to
>> >> Wilson's
>> >> initial comment last month by stating the council has no power to
>> >> regulate
>> >> the content of billboards.
>> >>
>> >> "Honestly, in my opinion, I think the sign is classless," he said. "To
>> >> me,
>> >> I
>> >> choose to ignore it."
>> >>
>> >> Wilson said the council should set a community standard to discourage
>> >> groups
>> >> like the AHA from placing billboards in Moscow.
>> >>
>> >> Councilor Wayne Krauss said he was offended Wilson didn't think the
>> >> council
>> >> cared.
>> >>
>> >> "First of all, I really don't know what you expect us to do," he said.
>> >> "You
>> >> know what the First Amendment is. You know what it stands for. ... We
>> >> know
>> >> what we can do and we know what we can't do."
>> >>
>> >> Councilor Walter Steed said he outright didn't like billboards of any
>> >> substance, and particularly didn't care for the Humanist one, but there
>> >> was
>> >> nothing that could be done.
>> >>
>> >> Greg Evans of Princeton said he didn't have a problem with most
>> >> Humanist
>> >> signs.
>> >>
>> >> "I've found them amusing. I've found them enjoyable in a way," he said.
>> >>
>> >> But Evans said he did not like the sign in Moscow because of its
>> >> direction
>> >> at children, adding it included a link to a website with sexually
>> >> explicit
>> >> content for teenagers. This would be the AHA teen webpage, which
>> >> includes
>> >> a
>> >> link regarding sexual education for humanists.
>> >>
>> >> "There seems to be a real interest in arguing spirituality and religion
>> >> in
>> >> this country," Councilor Tom Lamar said. "I get really tired of arguing
>> >> religion."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----
>> >>
>> >> Brandon Macz can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 238, or by email to
>> >> bmacz at dnews.com. Follow him on Twitter @BrandonMacz.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
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