[Vision2020] Whack-a-Dos On & Off the Council At It Again

[Ted Moffett]

I have not seen the billboard in question in Moscow, but this website quite
explicitly indicates some versions of a billboard similar to the one in
Moscow is aimed at "kidswithoutgod.com" and thus children if "kids" means
children:

http://www.americanhumanist.org/news/details/2012-11-kids-without-god-ads-appear-on-dc-busses
------------------------------------------
Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'd have more of a problem with the billboard -- ethically speaking --
> if it were directed at children rather than adults. But I don't think
> that is the case.
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm not sure exactly who the humanist billboard was intended to reach,
> > according to the creator of the content or those who paid for its
> placement.
> > You may very well be correct, that it was aimed at an adult audience.
>  This
> > is likely.   And of course it is legally protected speech.  But legal
> does
> > not always imply ethical or desirable, sometimes quite the opposite.
> >
> > I was assuming the complaints against this billboard might have had some
> > basis in the life of the person complaining to the city council.  Perhaps
> > their daughter, I think it was, read the billboard and was upset by it?
>  I
> > don't know.  Because the billboard is intended for adults does not mean
> it
> > cannot have an impact on children.
> >
> > Children are sometimes far more intelligent and aware than adults give
> them
> > credit for, and some children indeed do want to give up childish beliefs,
> > especially in our modern world which some with dismay think is forcing
> > children to grow up far too fast, sacrificing childhood in the process.
> >
> > Anyway, I don't have a problem with the content of that billboard, but I
> can
> > understand why someone would.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Ted,
> >>
> >> Do you really think that the posters are geared towards children as
> >> opposed to adults? I thought the message was (to adults): Don't act
> >> like children. Believing in God -- the claim says -- is like believing
> >> in Santa Claus.
> >>
> >> Forgetting about whether or not what the poster says is true -- a
> >> point about which we might disagree -- don't you think it is more
> >> geared towards adults than children? Why would children what to give
> >> up childish beliefs?
> >>
> >> Best, Joe
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > First Amendment, of course.  As though this needs to be emphasized and
> >> > debated?  Scary!
> >> >
> >> > The responses against this humanist billboard might in part be
> explained
> >> > by
> >> > the fact that sometimes "the truth hurts," as it's said.  And given
> the
> >> > anti-scientific intellectual brainwashing (on evolution, age of the
> >> > Earth,
> >> > sexuality issues, anthropogenic global warming, et. al.) that many
> >> > religions
> >> > inflict upon children, which I consider a form of child abuse, perhaps
> >> > there
> >> > is a need to counterbalance this form of "education," which might in
> >> > part be
> >> > the intention of those paying for the billboard.
> >> >
> >> > But to take the other side, if someone put up a billboard aimed at 4
> >> > year
> >> > olds enlightening them to the truth that Santa Claus is a fantasy,
> some
> >> > might consider this to be a cruel robbing of children of innocent
> >> > childhood
> >> > fantasy.
> >> >
> >> > To some children, religious concepts or fantasies are a source of
> >> > comfort.
> >> >
> >> > I recall feeling comforted by my "guardian angel" when I was a child,
> >> > though
> >> > there is no such entity, that I know of... On the other hand,
> questions
> >> > about the safety of an environment where a child would need a
> "guardian
> >> > angel" are a clue regarding what motivates human beings to indulge in
> >> > religious fantasies about a world they do not understand and find
> >> > threatening.
> >> >
> >> > I think it likely that some religious concepts have their origins in
> >> > attempts in less scientific less modern times to comprehend and
> control
> >> > a
> >> > world humans did not understand and thus sought "supernatural"
> >> > explanations.
> >> > ------------------------------------------
> >> > Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> To me, the most hilarious part of the article was "Throw the Evidence
> >> >> Away"
> >> >> Carscallen thinking he's in any position to call anyone or anything
> >> >> else
> >> >> "classless."  Oh, pot -- kettle is looking for you  :-)
> >> >>
> >> >> From Tuesday's Daily News:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Councilors reaffirm 1st Amendment rights of Humanists
> >> >>
> >> >>  By Brandon Macz, Daily News staff writer | Posted: Tuesday, December
> >> >> 4,
> >> >> 2012 12:00 am
> >> >>
> >> >> A Moscow resident took city councilors to task a second time in a
> >> >> separation
> >> >> of church and state and marketing issue regarding an American
> Humanist
> >> >> Association billboard he says has caused his young daughter harm.
> >> >>
> >> >> Judd Wilson first approached the council during its last meeting to
> >> >> complain
> >> >> about the sign at the southern end of town that states, "I'm getting
> a
> >> >> bit
> >> >> too old for imaginary friends," and depicts a young girl on it. This
> >> >> time
> >> >> he
> >> >> said he took offense to receiving no response from the city save for
> >> >> its
> >> >> attorney Randy Fife, whom he referred to as "The Lawyer."
> >> >>
> >> >> Wilson said councilors lacked sympathy for the impassioned speech he
> >> >> gave
> >> >> about a medical emergency regarding his daughter and how his
> Christian
> >> >> God
> >> >> saved her life nor had they done anything to discourage billboards
> >> >> attacking
> >> >> religious faith from being erected in the city. He added Mayor Nancy
> >> >> Chaney
> >> >> had supported proclamations positive toward homosexuality, but never
> >> >> for
> >> >> Christianity.
> >> >>
> >> >> "It seems you have no interest in doing anything for my daughter,"
> >> >> Wilson
> >> >> said.
> >> >>
> >> >> Council President Dan Carscallen repeated Fife's public response to
> >> >> Wilson's
> >> >> initial comment last month by stating the council has no power to
> >> >> regulate
> >> >> the content of billboards.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Honestly, in my opinion, I think the sign is classless," he said.
> "To
> >> >> me,
> >> >> I
> >> >> choose to ignore it."
> >> >>
> >> >> Wilson said the council should set a community standard to discourage
> >> >> groups
> >> >> like the AHA from placing billboards in Moscow.
> >> >>
> >> >> Councilor Wayne Krauss said he was offended Wilson didn't think the
> >> >> council
> >> >> cared.
> >> >>
> >> >> "First of all, I really don't know what you expect us to do," he
> said.
> >> >> "You
> >> >> know what the First Amendment is. You know what it stands for. ... We
> >> >> know
> >> >> what we can do and we know what we can't do."
> >> >>
> >> >> Councilor Walter Steed said he outright didn't like billboards of any
> >> >> substance, and particularly didn't care for the Humanist one, but
> there
> >> >> was
> >> >> nothing that could be done.
> >> >>
> >> >> Greg Evans of Princeton said he didn't have a problem with most
> >> >> Humanist
> >> >> signs.
> >> >>
> >> >> "I've found them amusing. I've found them enjoyable in a way," he
> said.
> >> >>
> >> >> But Evans said he did not like the sign in Moscow because of its
> >> >> direction
> >> >> at children, adding it included a link to a website with sexually
> >> >> explicit
> >> >> content for teenagers. This would be the AHA teen webpage, which
> >> >> includes
> >> >> a
> >> >> link regarding sexual education for humanists.
> >> >>
> >> >> "There seems to be a real interest in arguing spirituality and
> religion
> >> >> in
> >> >> this country," Councilor Tom Lamar said. "I get really tired of
> arguing
> >> >> religion."
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> ----
> >> >>
> >> >> Brandon Macz can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 238, or by
> email to
> >> >> bmacz at dnews.com. Follow him on Twitter @BrandonMacz.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > =======================================================
> >> >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >                http://www.fsr.net
> >> >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > =======================================================
> >
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20121208/8f562c8c/attachment.html>