[Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .

Sat Aug 11 21:52:50 PDT 2012

Well I can't. But you said it was a robbery, not a Columbine or Aurora type situation. Certainly you can't be sure he didn't prevent deaths; can't be sure their guns were loaded either. You just don't know. Paul was talking about an Aurora type situation, where the purpose is spree killing. Any examples of someone preventing that from happening with a handgun? Haven't heard or seen of one yet. 

On Aug 11, 2012, at 8:28 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:

> So, logically speaking, how can you know what was prevented? How can you know that one of the bandits wouldn't have started shooting and not quit till the incident had assumed tragic proportions? Were did you acquire this awesome ability to determine what might and might not have been?
>  
> g
> 
> From: Joe Campbell
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 3:46 PM
> To: Gary Crabtree
> Cc: Paul Rumelhart ; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
> 
> Well whether someone used a gun and saved the day in a case like Aurora is either true or false. If true, when and where? 
> 
> The case you have is different. Robbers who shot NO ONE and were subsequently shot by an old man. Not a case of preventing violence by any means.
> 
> I guess your next suggestion is to get rid of police -- too much big government -- and it's everyone for himself.
> 
> On Aug 11, 2012, at 2:34 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> 
>> CWP holders will be reluctant to pipe up in as much as part of concealed is keeping your yap shut and avoiding telling all of Gods creation that you're healed. Your opinion is looked on with favor by some to be sure.
>>  
>> A recent example of an armed citizen exercising his rights to good effect:
>>  
>> http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/71-Year-Old-Man-Shoots-Would-Be-Robbers-at-Ocala-Internet-Cafe-Authorities-162941656.html
>>  
>> To say that a guy with a hand gun has never prevented a massacre is illogical in as much as who can say what might have happened had a different path been followed? In one scenario two goblins are wounded and taken to jail. In another, a dozen innocents minding their own business in a internet café are senselessly murdered...film at 11:00
>>  
>> g
>> 
>> From: Paul Rumelhart
>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:57 AM
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, you'd have to be damn sure about your line of fire.  Firing in the middle of a frenzied crowd running panicked for the exits would surely be asking for trouble.  However, it's my understanding that for a while during the shooting the shooter had complete control of the situation.  Anyone trying to leave was shot.  Many people were playing dead in the hopes they would  be passed over.  Firing on the shooter, even if he's in body armor, might distract him enough that some people might have made it to the exits.  Body armor doesn't make you invincible, depending on the armor and the caliber of the weapon used you might still have made an impact, since he'd still be hit by the blunt force of the bullet.  In this situation, though, you would probably also have been shot dead shortly after because he was so well prepared (vest, leggings, throat protector, groin protector, and a helmet with a visor).  Who knows?  Telling a loved one "when I start shooting, RUN for the exit and don't stop" might have worked.
>> 
>> Most other shootings like this we've heard about haven't involved such a heavily armored assailant.  In fact, quite a few of them have taken place in areas where gun use is often restricted, such as in schools or on university campuses.  Harris and Kliebold wore T-shirts and cargo pants at Columbine.  A student who had happened to have smuggled a gun into the school might have been able to have had a real impact on that event.
>> 
>> An interesting thing to think about, in my opinion.  Apparently, that opinion is not shared on this list.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>> On 08/11/2012 08:13 AM, Art Deco wrote:
>>> It's hard to think of something more foolish than someone or ones with a hand gun in a disorganized, panicky crowd trying to shoot a person with a automatic weapon shielded by body armor.  How many more victims would be added to the final body count?
>>> 
>>> Didn't something like this happen in the Moscow Massacre?
>>> 
>>> w.
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Tom,
>>>  
>>> While your wife if shopping Tri-State, you should be to. I mean come on, support your community why don't you. :) 
>>>  
>>> Donovan J. Arnold
>>> 
>>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>>> To: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> 
>>> Cc: "<vision2020 at moscow.com>" <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
>>> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:47 PM
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
>>> 
>>> You may very well be right, Sunil.  
>>> 
>>> It's just a habit I have acquired while in the service.  Trust those around you, but keep your powder dry.
>>> 
>>> I saw the poster at Tri-State.  And, as I've said before, this is the first time I have seen such an advertisement in Moscow.  I checked a few things out, such as its website, phone number, etc. etc. etc. (Hey, I needed something to pass the time while my wife was shopping at Tri-State).
>>> 
>>> The more I dug, the more red flags I found.  The more red flags I found, the more I dug.  I have so many info sources, concerning the NFT Academy, bookmarked for reference I am thinking of discarding half of 'em.
>>> 
>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>> 
>>> Tom Hansen
>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>> 
>>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>> 
>>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Aug 10, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I've taken such a class and in the past had a concealed weapon permit; who knows, I may again. I don't think this class is a big deal.
>>>> 
>>>> Sunil 
>>>> 
>>>> From: thansen at moscow.com
>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:41:58 -0700
>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
>>>> 
>>>> The primary reason this caught my eye . . .
>>>> 
>>>> I have lived here in Moscow for just over twenty years.  The is the FIRST time I have seen concealed-weapon classes openly advertised in town.  Couple that up with the increasing paranoia, as a result of the recent instances in Aurora (Colorado) and Milwaukee (Wisconsin), and I feel I have a right to be curious.
>>>> 
>>>> BTW, the NFT Academy website has only been in existence since April 2012 and was not publicly released until June 12, 2012 (TWO MONTHS AGO).
>>>> 
>>>> http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/
>>>>  
>>>> I have more info to share, concerning the NFT Academy and its website, but let's see where this thread leads.
>>>> 
>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>> 
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>> 
>>>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>> 
>>>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Something legal? The nerve! Next they'll be selling guns!
>>>> 
>>>> Sunil 
>>>> 
>>>> From: thansen at moscow.com
>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:24:56 -0700
>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>  
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>  
>>>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>               http://www.fsr.net/
>>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>>> 
>>>> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step I
>> 
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
> 

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