I think conceal carry is like a double edged sword. It'll help in some cases and it'll have tragic consequences in others. I remember quite a number of years ago (20+ maybe) where a pregnant woman was shot in the head by a disabled veteran while she was in the process of robbing him on the streets of Oakland, CA. It was a huge controversy on so many different levels including the one where an Oakland hospital spent hundreds of thousands of dollars - that they could have otherwise donated to vaccinate hundreds of children - in keeping the brain dead woman alive until her fetus was developed enough to where it could be removed by c-section and she could be unplugged and left to die on the operating table. If I recall correctly, the disabled vet never faced any formal charges even though he did not have a legal carry permit.
-Scott
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 18:33:00 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
The claim, should somebody make it, that lots of these kinds of
events are being stopped regularly by people carrying concealed
weapons might be a myth. Saying that a gun might be helpful in
such a situation isn't a myth because we can't (yet) point to a
case where it stopped the shooter because we simply don't have
enough information. You would have to know how many of these
events have happened (classifying them somehow), in how many of
them people had concealed weapons on their person, and whether or
not having the weapon overall helped or hindered the situation.
There simply haven't been enough of these kinds of events to know
that. For all the media hype when one happens, they are actually
rare events.
Paul
On 08/11/2012 03:46 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
Well whether someone used a gun and saved the day in a case
like Aurora is either true or false. If true, when and where?
The case you have is different. Robbers who shot NO ONE and
were subsequently shot by an old man. Not a case of preventing
violence by any means.
I guess your next suggestion is to get rid of police -- too
much big government -- and it's everyone for himself.
On Aug 11, 2012, at 2:34 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
wrote:
CWP holders will be reluctant to
pipe up in as much as part of concealed is keeping your
yap shut and avoiding telling all of Gods creation that
you're healed. Your opinion is looked on with favor by
some to be sure.
A recent example of an armed
citizen exercising his rights to good effect:
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/71-Year-Old-Man-Shoots-Would-Be-Robbers-at-Ocala-Internet-Cafe-Authorities-162941656.html
To say that a guy with a hand gun
has never prevented a massacre is illogical in as much
as who can say what might have happened had a different
path been followed? In one scenario two goblins are
wounded and taken to jail. In another, a dozen innocents
minding their own business in a internet café are
senselessly murdered...film at 11:00
g
From: Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:57 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See
What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
Yes, you'd have to be damn sure about your line of fire.
Firing in the middle of a frenzied crowd running panicked
for the exits would surely be asking for trouble.
However, it's my understanding that for a while during the
shooting the shooter had complete control of the
situation. Anyone trying to leave was shot. Many people
were playing dead in the hopes they would be passed
over. Firing on the shooter, even if he's in body armor,
might distract him enough that some people might have made
it to the exits. Body armor doesn't make you invincible,
depending on the armor and the caliber of the weapon used
you might still have made an impact, since he'd still be
hit by the blunt force of the bullet. In this situation,
though, you would probably also have been shot dead
shortly after because he was so well prepared (vest,
leggings, throat protector, groin protector, and a helmet
with a visor). Who knows? Telling a loved one "when I
start shooting, RUN for the exit and don't stop" might
have worked.
Most other shootings like this we've heard about haven't
involved such a heavily armored assailant. In fact, quite
a few of them have taken place in areas where gun use is
often restricted, such as in schools or on university
campuses. Harris and Kliebold wore T-shirts and cargo
pants at Columbine. A student who had happened to have
smuggled a gun into the school might have been able to
have had a real impact on that event.
An interesting thing to think about, in my opinion.
Apparently, that opinion is not shared on this list.
Paul
On 08/11/2012 08:13 AM, Art Deco wrote:
It's hard to think of
something more foolish than someone or ones with a hand
gun in a disorganized, panicky crowd trying to shoot a
person with a automatic weapon shielded by body armor.
How many more victims would be added to the final body
count?
Didn't something like this happen in the Moscow
Massacre?
w.
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:02 AM,
Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Tom,
While your wife if shopping Tri-State,
you should be to. I mean come on, support your
community why don't you. :)
Donovan J. Arnold
From:
Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
To:
Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Cc:
"<vision2020 at moscow.com>"
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent:
Friday, August 10, 2012 6:47 PM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What
Tri-State is Promoting . . .
You may very well be right,
Sunil.
It's just a habit I have acquired
while in the service. Trust those
around you, but keep your powder
dry.
I saw the poster at Tri-State.
And, as I've said before, this is
the first time I have seen such an
advertisement in Moscow. I checked
a few things out, such as its
website, phone number, etc. etc.
etc. (Hey, I needed something to
pass the time while my wife was
shopping at Tri-State).
The more I dug, the more red
flags I found. The more red flags I
found, the more I dug. I have so
many info sources, concerning the
NFT Academy, bookmarked for
reference I am thinking of
discarding half of 'em.
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000
with 10,000 college students. The
college students are not very
active in local elections (thank
goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28,
2007)
On Aug 10, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sunil
Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
wrote:
I've taken such a
class and in the past had a
concealed weapon permit; who
knows, I may again. I don't
think this class is a big deal.
Sunil
From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012
17:41:58 -0700
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
[more] Look See What Tri-State
is Promoting . . .
The primary
reason this caught my
eye . . .
I have lived
here in Moscow for just
over twenty years. The
is the FIRST time I have
seen concealed-weapon
classes openly
advertised in town.
Couple that up with the
increasing paranoia, as
a result of the recent
instances in Aurora
(Colorado) and Milwaukee
(Wisconsin), and I feel
I have a right to be
curious.
BTW, the NFT
Academy website has only
been in existence since
April 2012 and was not
publicly released until
June 12, 2012 (TWO
MONTHS AGO).
http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/
I have more info to
share, concerning the
NFT Academy and its
website, but let's see
where this thread leads.
Seeya round town,
Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of
about 23,000 with 10,000
college students. The
college students are not
very active in local
elections (thank
goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney
(March 28, 2007)
On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:09
PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Something
legal? The nerve! Next
they'll be selling
guns!
Sunil
From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012
14:24:56 -0700
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020]
Look See What
Tri-State is Promoting
. . .
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
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Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net/
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List services made available by
First Step Internet, serving the
communities of the Palouse since
1994. http://www.fsr.net/
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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by First Step I
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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