[Vision2020] Spreading Homophobia

keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
Fri Apr 6 19:37:38 PDT 2012





There are some who believe, or at least question if, the Apostle Paul was, in fact, referring to that of which he couldn't have known in the first century A.D. -- that is, committed, mutual, monogamous and consensual same-sex relationships, which simply did not exist on his cultural radar screen.  The "homosexual" behavior of that day was largely in the form of pagan temple worship, leading to opposite- and same-sex debauchery worthy of condemnation, regardless of the sex of those practicing it.  Were there women and men in Paul's first century who were born with a sexual, affectional preference for other women and men?  Undoubtedly -- but they weren't identified, by the culture or by themselves, as "homosexuals" or "lesbians."  The existence of gay people was not something known of, speculated about, or offered as a topic for theological ruminations, so much so that most New Testament scholars believe that Paul's condemnation of the same-sex relations he discusses in Romans and 1 Corinthians required that he coin a phrase just to put forth his point.  Therefore, some people -- committed Christians who love the Lord Jesus and take seriously what Christians to be God's Word, the Bible -- have concluded that Paul was not condemning what he couldn't have known of or seen existing around him (monogamous, mutual same-sex engagement), but the pedastery and other violations and excesses practiced by "pagans."  Others continue to believe that Paul's condemnations include even those forms of same-sex sexual expression that he knew nothing of, but are open to the possibility that that may not be correct; where they know they ARE correct is in their insistence that love and justice prevail in the Church's interaction with its homosexual sisters and brothers and the gay community at large.  And some are comfortable with the fact that just as we no longer refer to those beset by seizure disorders as "demon-possessed," even though Scripture seems to equate EVERY New Testament instance of a seizure with possession, we can, on the basis of scientific and personal testimony suggesting that gay people are born with an already-wired sexual preference, come to reasonably understand how that reality might challenge previously-held notions of volitional, "sinful," sexual inclinations, orientations, identity, and, finally, activity.  

There are a couple of gay-affirming conservative, Bible-believing Christian groups, Evangelicals Concerned and SoulForce, who provide arguments you might find illuminating, Paul.    Whether they're "right" or not is, to me, not the point -- it's the mind-opening experience of studying other points of view that's valuable, whether originally coming from a conservative or less-than-conservative position.  I would recommend their websites to anyone, Christian or not, interested in the issue.  I don't have a countering recommendation of the "not gay-affirming" side of things because, alas, they're not only proportionally overrepresented in the media, but represented in a way whose frequent ugliness makes their arguments difficult to forget.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com


Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 20:45:45 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com
CC: donaldrose at cpcinternet.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Spreading Homophobia



  


    
    
  
  
    

    I have nothing against homosexuality, myself.  It's not my thing,
    but more power to those whose thing it is.

    

    I'm just curious, though, if there is a biblical basis for anything
    other than condemning homosexuality?  All I've ever heard has been
    about how it is an abomination before God, and so on and so forth.

    

    It doesn't really matter to me, really, I'm just curious.

    

    Paul

    

    On 04/05/2012 06:16 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
    
      
      
        Sometimes, the most prominent enemies of the Gospel turn out to
        be the very ones charged with preaching it from the pulpit. 
        Their error is more significant than that of the layperson's --
        first, because Scripture says they'll be judged more harshly by
        God when they claim that title, and second because their
        audience is larger, so their errors spread more easily.  Here,
        Wilson's take on homosexuality, however Biblical he proclaims it
        to be, is marred and, I think, clearly defined by his past
        invitation to have readers come up with as many neat-o offensive
        words for gay men as they could.  That, and his past refusal to
        disavow an Old Testament-law approach to stoning or exiling
        homosexuals.  

        

        There are people who hold to a conservative Biblical view of
        homosexuality who are not homophobic, destructive, bigoted and
        mean-spirited, and I would not condemn them for their
        conservatism.

        

        Doug Wilson isn't one of these.  I condemn him not for his
        conservative view of homosexuality, although I would admonish
        him and everyone else who holds to that view that they must be
        especially careful about, and sensitive to, fanning flames of
        homophobia with their rhetoric.  Rather, I condemn him for the
        bellicose joy he takes in being nasty and snotty -- on this and
        many, many other issues -- under the cover of "Biblical
        faithfulness."

        

        The Bayly Brothers, Steve Wilkins, the Federal Vision crowd, and
        all of the Reformed, patriarchal men who benefit from these
        mens' empires, need to get out more and discover a Gospel
        culture of warmth, kindness, truth, and humility.  There are
        homosexual and heterosexual women and men there, and it's a good
        place to be.

        

        Keely

              www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

            

        

        
          From: donaldrose at cpcinternet.com

          To: kjajmix1 at msn.com;
          "'undisclosed-recipients:'"@mx0a-00121c01.pphosted.com

          CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

          Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Spreading Homophobia

          Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 17:46:25 -0700

          

          
          
          
            Well, I wish the “u” hadn’t
                stuck when I typed the word “pseudo – Christian.”  On
                the other hand,  I am really sorry that I had to use the
                term at all in reference to someone who claims the gift
                of ordination.
            Rose
             
            
              
                From:
                    vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
                    [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf
                      Of keely emerinemix

                    Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 5:20 PM

                    To: undisclosed-recipients:

                    Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com

                    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Spreading
                    Homophobia
              
            
             
            
              A comment
                  from a fanboy writing on the Bayly brothers' blog, the
                  home page photo for which has confused more than one
                  viewer given the picture of these two handsome,
                  tuxedoed men posing together, a glimpse of what will
                  pass for "reasoned debate" and "learned commentary" at
                  Wilson's talk:

                  

                  "Will Doug speak to this phenomenon that homosexuality
                  always follows ubiquitous use of contraception?"

                  

                  Golly, I hope so.  

                  

                  But perhaps then he can talk about how if there really
                  WERE global warming, which Wilson insists there isn't,
                  of course, it would be caused by homosexuality.  Then
                  maybe he can talk about why Superman would be a great
                  role model if only he ditched the tights.  Then he
                  could wrap up with how "Father Hunger" is the cause of
                  the national debt . . . leading to a discussion of how
                  both Presidents Bush, father and son, might finally
                  reconcile, while still blaming President Obama for any
                  immorality he, Wilson, sniffs out around us.  

                  

                  Or have we just heard this all before?

                   

                Keely

                  www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

                  

                
              
                
                    
                From: donaldrose at cpcinternet.com

                    To: thansen at moscow.com;
                    art.deco.studios at gmail.com

                    Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 16:05:33 -0700

                    CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

                    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Spreading Homophobia
                
                  I have to wonder if he will be
                      stopping by for a psedo-Christian chin wag with
                       Rev. Fred Phelps who  lives in the general area. 
                      Phelps and Wilson would make a dynamic duo on the
                      evangelical speaking circuit,  while
                      simultaneously shaming the Gospel they profess to
                      love.   Anything-For-A-Dime Wilson has never
                      minded slumming with debate partners (Hitchens and
                      Dawkins) but of course there would be no debate
                      with Phelps, since they are in profound agreement
                      on the topic of homosexuality.  What a pair of
                      evil-spirited gits.l
                   
                  Rose Huskey
                   
                  
                    
                      From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
                          [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
                          On Behalf Of Tom Hansen

                          Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 2:48 PM

                          To: Art Deco

                          Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com

                          Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Spreading
                          Homophobia
                    
                  
                   
                  
                    It's
                        really simple, Wayne.
                  
                  
                     
                  
                  
                    NO
                        CHILD IS BORN HOMOPHOBIC !
                    
                      Seeya
                          round town, Moscow.
                    
                    
                       
                    
                    
                      Tom
                          Hansen
                    
                    
                      Moscow,
                          Idaho
                    
                    
                       
                    
                    
                      "If
                          not us, who?
                    
                    
                      If
                          not now, when?"
                    
                    
                       
                    
                    
                      -
                          Unknown
                    
                    
                       
                    
                    
                       
                    
                  
                  
                    

                        On Apr 5, 2012, at 14:33, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
                        wrote:
                  
                  
                    
                      The
                          epitome and hero of the local ignorant
                          continues to attempt to deny equality and
                          human rights:  He, Christ Church Cultmaster
                          Douglas Wilson, the self-claimed inerrant
                          interpreter of the alleged inerrant word of
                          some alleged god, the Bible, follows this
                          dicta:  If facts contradict the Bible, then
                          the facts are wrong.  

                          

                          Crackpottery and con artistry rely on Barnum's
                          "There's one [or more] born every minute."  In
                          the meantime millions of gay people face
                          stigma and discrimination because of ignorant,
                          arrogant egomaniacs/megalomaniacs like Christ
                          Church Cultmaster Douglas Wilson continue to
                          attempt to foist their religious
                          delusions/superstitions on all.

                          

                          http://www.baylyblog.com/2012/04/sex-at-indiana-univeristy-.html

                          

                          http://jesusatiu.com/sexual-design-series-lectures-doug-wilson
                          

                          -- 

                          Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)

                          art.deco.studios at gmail.com
                    
                  
                  
                    
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