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<div dir="ltr">There are some who believe, or at least question if, the Apostle Paul was, in fact, referring to that of which he couldn't have known in the first century A.D. -- that is, committed, mutual, monogamous and consensual same-sex relationships, which simply did not exist on his cultural radar screen. The "homosexual" behavior of that day was largely in the form of pagan temple worship, leading to opposite- and same-sex debauchery worthy of condemnation, regardless of the sex of those practicing it. Were there women and men in Paul's first century who were born with a sexual, affectional preference for other women and men? Undoubtedly -- but they weren't identified, by the culture or by themselves, as "homosexuals" or "lesbians." The existence of gay people was not something known of, speculated about, or offered as a topic for theological ruminations, so much so that most New Testament scholars believe that Paul's condemnation of the same-sex relations he discusses in Romans and 1 Corinthians required that he coin a phrase just to put forth his point. Therefore, some people -- committed Christians who love the Lord Jesus and take seriously what Christians to be God's Word, the Bible -- have concluded that Paul was not condemning what he couldn't have known of or seen existing around him (monogamous, mutual same-sex engagement), but the pedastery and other violations and excesses practiced by "pagans." Others continue to believe that Paul's condemnations include even those forms of same-sex sexual expression that he knew nothing of, but are open to the possibility that that may not be correct; where they know they ARE correct is in their insistence that love and justice prevail in the Church's interaction with its homosexual sisters and brothers and the gay community at large. And some are comfortable with the fact that just as we no longer refer to those beset by seizure disorders as "demon-possessed," even though Scripture seems to equate EVERY New Testament instance of a seizure with possession, we can, on the basis of scientific and personal testimony suggesting that gay people are born with an already-wired sexual preference, come to reasonably understand how that reality might challenge previously-held notions of volitional, "sinful," sexual inclinations, orientations, identity, and, finally, activity. <br><br>There are a couple of gay-affirming conservative, Bible-believing Christian groups, Evangelicals Concerned and SoulForce, who provide arguments you might find illuminating, Paul. Whether they're "right" or not is, to me, not the point -- it's the mind-opening experience of studying other points of view that's valuable, whether originally coming from a conservative or less-than-conservative position. I would recommend their websites to anyone, Christian or not, interested in the issue. I don't have a countering recommendation of the "not gay-affirming" side of things because, alas, they're not only proportionally overrepresented in the media, but represented in a way whose frequent ugliness makes their arguments difficult to forget.<br><br><font style="" color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><font style="" face="Verdana">Keely<br>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com<br></font></font></font><br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 20:45:45 -0700<br>From: godshatter@yahoo.com<br>To: kjajmix1@msn.com<br>CC: donaldrose@cpcinternet.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Spreading Homophobia<br><br>
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<br>
I have nothing against homosexuality, myself. It's not my thing,
but more power to those whose thing it is.<br>
<br>
I'm just curious, though, if there is a biblical basis for anything
other than condemning homosexuality? All I've ever heard has been
about how it is an abomination before God, and so on and so forth.<br>
<br>
It doesn't really matter to me, really, I'm just curious.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 04/05/2012 06:16 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:COL105-W170C03DBED7CA1E070015482300@phx.gbl">
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Sometimes, the most prominent enemies of the Gospel turn out to
be the very ones charged with preaching it from the pulpit.
Their error is more significant than that of the layperson's --
first, because Scripture says they'll be judged more harshly by
God when they claim that title, and second because their
audience is larger, so their errors spread more easily. Here,
Wilson's take on homosexuality, however Biblical he proclaims it
to be, is marred and, I think, clearly defined by his past
invitation to have readers come up with as many neat-o offensive
words for gay men as they could. That, and his past refusal to
disavow an Old Testament-law approach to stoning or exiling
homosexuals. <br>
<br>
There are people who hold to a conservative Biblical view of
homosexuality who are not homophobic, destructive, bigoted and
mean-spirited, and I would not condemn them for their
conservatism.<br>
<br>
Doug Wilson isn't one of these. I condemn him not for his
conservative view of homosexuality, although I would admonish
him and everyone else who holds to that view that they must be
especially careful about, and sensitive to, fanning flames of
homophobia with their rhetoric. Rather, I condemn him for the
bellicose joy he takes in being nasty and snotty -- on this and
many, many other issues -- under the cover of "Biblical
faithfulness."<br>
<br>
The Bayly Brothers, Steve Wilkins, the Federal Vision crowd, and
all of the Reformed, patriarchal men who benefit from these
mens' empires, need to get out more and discover a Gospel
culture of warmth, kindness, truth, and humility. There are
homosexual and heterosexual women and men there, and it's a good
place to be.<br>
<br>
<font style="" color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><font style="" face="Verdana">Keely<br>
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com" target="_blank">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</a><br>
</font></font></font><br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="ecxstopSpelling">From: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com">donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</a><br>
To: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</a>;
"'undisclosed-recipients:'"@mx0a-00121c01.pphosted.com<br>
CC: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Spreading Homophobia<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 17:46:25 -0700<br>
<br>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Well, I wish the “u” hadn’t
stuck when I typed the word “pseudo – Christian.” On
the other hand, I am really sorry that I had to use the
term at all in reference to someone who claims the gift
of ordination.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Rose</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:medium none;border-width:1pt\00000d\00000a medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color\00000d\00000a -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>keely emerinemix<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 05, 2012 5:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> undisclosed-recipients:<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Spreading
Homophobia</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">A comment
from a fanboy writing on the Bayly brothers' blog, the
home page photo for which has confused more than one
viewer given the picture of these two handsome,
tuxedoed men posing together, a glimpse of what will
pass for "reasoned debate" and "learned commentary" at
Wilson's talk:<br>
<br>
"Will Doug speak to this phenomenon that homosexuality
always follows ubiquitous use of contraception?"<br>
<br>
Golly, I hope so. <br>
<br>
But perhaps then he can talk about how if there really
WERE global warming, which Wilson insists there isn't,
of course, it would be caused by homosexuality. Then
maybe he can talk about why Superman would be a great
role model if only he ditched the tights. Then he
could wrap up with how "Father Hunger" is the cause of
the national debt . . . leading to a discussion of how
both Presidents Bush, father and son, might finally
reconcile, while still blaming President Obama for any
immorality he, Wilson, sniffs out around us. <br>
<br>
Or have we just heard this all before?<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:rgb(128, 100, 162)">Keely<br>
<a href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com" target="_blank">www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</a><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<div>
<div class="ecxMsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<hr id="ecxstopSpelling" size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From: <a href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com">donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 16:05:33 -0700<br>
CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Spreading Homophobia</span></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">I have to wonder if he will be
stopping by for a psedo-Christian chin wag with
Rev. Fred Phelps who lives in the general area.
Phelps and Wilson would make a dynamic duo on the
evangelical speaking circuit, while
simultaneously shaming the Gospel they profess to
love. Anything-For-A-Dime Wilson has never
minded slumming with debate partners (Hitchens and
Dawkins) but of course there would be no debate
with Phelps, since they are in profound agreement
on the topic of homosexuality. What a pair of
evil-spirited gits.l</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Rose Huskey</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:medium none;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223)\00000d\00000a -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Hansen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 05, 2012 2:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Art Deco<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Spreading
Homophobia</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">It's
really simple, Wayne.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">NO
CHILD IS BORN HOMOPHOBIC !</span></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Seeya
round town, Moscow.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Tom
Hansen</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Moscow,
Idaho</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">"If
not us, who?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">If
not now, when?"</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">-
Unknown</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br>
On Apr 5, 2012, at 14:33, Art Deco <<a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">The
epitome and hero of the local ignorant
continues to attempt to deny equality and
human rights: He, Christ Church Cultmaster
Douglas Wilson, the self-claimed inerrant
interpreter of the alleged inerrant word of
some alleged god, the Bible, follows this
dicta: If facts contradict the Bible, then
the facts are wrong. <br>
<br>
Crackpottery and con artistry rely on Barnum's
"There's one [or more] born every minute." In
the meantime millions of gay people face
stigma and discrimination because of ignorant,
arrogant egomaniacs/megalomaniacs like Christ
Church Cultmaster Douglas Wilson continue to
attempt to foist their religious
delusions/superstitions on all.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.baylyblog.com/2012/04/sex-at-indiana-univeristy-.html" target="_blank">http://www.baylyblog.com/2012/04/sex-at-indiana-univeristy-.html</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://jesusatiu.com/sexual-design-series-lectures-doug-wilson" target="_blank">http://jesusatiu.com/sexual-design-series-lectures-doug-wilson</a><br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>
<a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step
Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br>
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><fieldset class="ecxmimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</pre>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>
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