[Vision2020] The 1% in Congress
Reggie Holmquist
reggieholmquist at u.boisestate.edu
Sun Nov 13 18:04:17 PST 2011
I don't think anyone hates anyone, except maybe for the greedy bankers who
ruined our economy by spreading around toxic CDOs. But that doesn't mean
that we shouldn't aim for a higher effective tax rate for individuals
making millions and millions of dollars. The rich can handle it better,
it's more fair, and right now America needs the public revenues, if for no
other reason than to pay down the debt. Under FDR the highest tax bracket
was 90%. Even under Nixon it was 70%, and for much of Reagan's term it was
50%. Right now it is 35%, and so many Occupiers think it would be good to
push that top marginal tax rate back to Reagan levels. There is also a
strong argument for raising the capital gains tax, which is where most of
the 1%'s income comes from, anyway. It's more fair, the rich can handle it
better, and right now America needs the public revenues. There is no
reason that Warren Buffet should be paying a lower effective tax rate than
his secretary.
Aside from that, Occupy has been making many of the arguments you seem to
be asking them to make. They are against corporate tax loopholes, they are
against corporate personhood, they are against a system which allows the
financial industry to leverage our own economy against us (i.e. reinstate
Glass-Steagall). A lot of them also support Campaign Finance Reform
(because a system that allows the 1% an exponentially larger amount of
influence in the elections is unjust, un-Democratic, and unAmerican), and I
have heard quite a few call out for Electoral Reform (move from plurality
voting to preferential, thereby allowing for 3rd parties).
To me, Paul, your amorphous argument against Occupy does not seem
significant or relevant. Maybe I just don't understand your position?
-Reggie
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:
> **
>
> It's indiscriminate class warfare. Targeting people based solely on how
> much money they have is not any different than targeting someone based on
> any other random criteria. So, instead of targeting randomly wealthy
> people, target those who worked to pass those laws. Target the laws
> themselves.
>
> It's the difference between saying "I hate you because you are rich" and
> "I hate you specifically because you made a deal with a congressman to get
> a special tax benefit that no others have so you could unfairly increase
> your profits on the backs of all tax payers". One requires actually
> thinking about the problem and doing some research in an effort to fix it.
> The other is just lashing out because someone is doing well while they are
> not.
>
> Target the greedy, not the well-to-do. They overlap a lot, but not
> completely.
>
> I'd love for the Occupy Idaho folks to scour the State tax code looking
> for unfair tax benefits and expose them. Much more beneficial than just
> making a statement.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 11/13/2011 02:00 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> You say, 'Condemn the laws that encourage it, such as the ability of
> shareholders to sue if a company is making a decision that affects
> short-term profits in favor of long-term growth or the various tax dodges
> written into the tax code to benefit specific companies over their
> competition (making for a non-free trade market).'
>
> Do you think those laws are somehow disconnected from the institutions
> that pass and sign them? Did they just spring up, somehow disconnected from
> their beneficiaries and sponsors?
>
> Of course there's a direct connection between a ruling class this wealthy,
> and legislation that benefits others in their group, and in whose pockets
> they so comfortably dwell.
>
> How come that's not class warfare? How come it's only class warfare when
> someone says, 'Those guys are screwing us?'
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:09:18 -0800
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: rforce2003 at yahoo.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The 1% in Congress
>
>
> This kind of thing is a good illustration of what concerns me about this
> whole 1% / 99% metric. Here is a list of people who are in Congress who
> have a lot of money. So what? There is no indication as to how these
> people got their money. No condemnation of certain Congressmen because
> they passed legislation that directly helped their bottom line. No effort
> to separate the wheat from the chaff. How many of these people came into
> their wealth and decided they wanted to do something good with it but also
> understand the idea behind the phrase "free milk and a cow"? The only
> thing we can say is that they are doing well.
>
> it looks vaguely like a target list, frankly. What ever happened to the
> good old American Dream(tm)?
>
> What we should be focused on is unmitigated greed. It exists in all
> levels of society, not just in the most wealthy. Condemn the laws that
> encourage it, such as the ability of shareholders to sue if a company is
> making a decision that affects short-term profits in favor of long-term
> growth or the various tax dodges written into the tax code to benefit
> specific companies over their competition (making for a non-free trade
> market). There are plenty other examples of outright greed that we could
> be focusing on. Instead, we are focusing on net wealth as some kind of
> metric of Good vs. Evil. Sure, the wealthy could be doing more to help the
> poor, but so could each one of us.
>
> While we're on the subject of the seven deadly sins, why not take a close
> look at "envy" while we're at it?
>
> Paul
>
> On 11/11/2011 04:34 PM, Ron Force wrote:
>
> *Table 2: All members of Congress with average net worth above $9
> million, from 2009*
> Name Minimum Wealth Maximum Wealth Average Chamber Darrell Issa
> (R-Calif.) $156,050,022 $451,100,000 $303,575,011 House John Kerry
> (D-Mass.) $182,755,534 $294,869,059 $238,812,296 Senate Mark Warner
> (D-Va.) $65,692,210 $283,077,995 $174,385,102 Senate Jared Polis
> (D-Colo.) $36,694,140 $285,123,996 $160,909,068 House Herb Kohl (D-Wis.)
> $89,358,027 $231,245,995 $160,302,011 Senate Vernon Buchanan (R-Fla.)
> -$69,434,661 $366,180,982 $148,373,160 House Michael McCaul (R-Texas)
> $73,685,086 $201,537,000 $137,611,043 House James E. Risch (R-Idaho)
> $38,936,114 $179,131,990 $109,034,052 Senate Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.)
> $61,446,018 $136,218,002 $98,832,010 Senate Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.)
> $64,210,256 $125,529,976 $94,870,116 Senate Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.)
> $46,055,250 $108,109,018 $77,082,134 Senate Frank R. Lautenberg (D-N.J.)
> $49,083,204 $104,690,018 $76,886,611 Senate Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)
> -$7,356,915 $124,229,990 $58,436,537 House Gary Miller (R-Calif.)
> $19,365,053 $84,302,000 $51,833,526 House Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) $9,778,047
> $91,656,998 $50,717,522 Senate Diane Lynn Black (R-Tenn.) $14,673,049
> $84,145,990 $49,409,519 House Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-N.J.) $19,898,179
> $67,697,000 $43,797,589 House Rick Berg (R-N.D.) $19,347,579 $58,981,451
> $39,164,515 House Nita M. Lowey (D-N.Y.) $14,900,036 $63,125,000
> $39,012,518 House Kenny Marchant (R-Texas) $13,303,385 $63,106,351
> $38,204,868 House Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.) $6,598,014 $56,244,997
> $31,421,505 House Scott Rigell (R-Va.) $11,618,078 $48,200,000
> $29,909,039 House Olympia J. Snowe (R-Maine) $12,556,055 $44,669,000
> $28,612,527 Senate James B. Renacci (R-Ohio) $17,571,131 $39,297,044
> $28,434,087 House Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) $11,522,909 $44,209,871
> $27,866,390 Senate Carolyn B. Maloney (D-N.Y.) $7,045,017 $41,899,994
> $24,472,505 House Tom Petri (R-Wis.) $5,111,026 $43,765,999 $24,438,512
> House John Campbell (R-Calif.) $9,227,063 $37,282,000 $23,254,531 House Steve
> Pearce (R-N.M.) $8,368,014 $37,945,000 $23,156,507 House Richard L Hanna
> (R-N.Y.) $10,960,117 $33,276,000 $22,118,058 House Claire McCaskill
> (D-Mo.) $15,681,206 $27,543,006 $21,612,106 Senate Blake Farenthold
> (R-Texas) $10,359,086 $31,381,997 $20,870,541 House John Hoeven (R-N.D.)
> -$12,829,960 $52,851,999 $20,011,019 Senate Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.)
> $7,102,036 $32,756,000 $19,929,018 Senate Kay R. Hagan (D-N.C.)
> $3,549,596 $33,149,981 $18,349,788 Senate F. James Sensenbrenner Jr.
> (R-Wis.) $14,990,621 $20,923,567 $17,957,094 House Ron Johnson (R-Wis.)
> $1,056,768 $34,566,596 $17,811,682 Senate Michael F Bennet (D-Colo.)
> $6,217,020 $27,780,000 $16,998,510 Senate Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) $10,447,125
> $23,082,001 $16,764,563 Senate Nan Hayworth (R-N.Y.) $9,542,219
> $23,259,000 $16,400,609 House Fred Upton (R-Mich.) $7,010,173 $25,651,000
> $16,330,586 House Rosa L. DeLauro (D-Conn.) $5,429,018 $26,697,997
> $16,063,507 House John McCain (R-Ariz.) $9,769,247 $22,072,994
> $15,921,120 Senate Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) $7,790,095 $20,949,999
> $14,370,047 House Cynthia Marie Lummis (R-Wyo.) $4,939,028 $23,591,999
> $14,265,513 House Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) $6,393,295 $20,874,000
> $13,633,647 Senate Shelley Berkley (D-Nev.) $6,593,088 $20,654,033
> $13,623,560 House Jackie Speier (D-Calif.) $4,561,077 $20,503,000
> $12,532,038 House Tom Price (R-Ga.) $7,653,606 $17,121,588 $12,387,597
> House Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) $8,010,107 $16,623,001 $12,316,554 Senate Trent
> Franks (R-Ariz.) $4,100,005 $20,250,000 $12,175,002 House Randy
> Neugebauer (R-Texas) $6,126,070 $18,078,998 $12,102,534 House Johnny
> Isakson (R-Ga.) $6,407,085 $17,427,999 $11,917,542 Senate Rob Portman
> (R-Ohio) $5,544,075 $17,468,999 $11,506,537 Senate David Dreier
> (R-Calif.) $5,264,092 $17,715,000 $11,489,546 House David B. McKinley
> (R-W.Va.) $5,216,060 $14,316,000 $9,766,030 House John A. Yarmuth (D-Ky.)
> $2,850,009 $16,349,999 $9,600,004 House John Fleming (R-La.) $2,153,834
> $16,797,770 $9,475,802 House Jon Runyan (R-N.J.) $5,000,034 $13,674,999
> $9,337,516 House
> Source: Center for Responsive Politics<http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/index.php>
>
>
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