[Vision2020] American arrogance and arms accounting (was: NPR)

Thu Mar 31 17:04:18 PDT 2011

But one babyboomer is a majority? 

All but one babyboomer was in Senate and House leadership when Clinton became president. Clinton did not invent the idea of a balanced budget as you claim. Nor is a few balanced budgets equate to an end of a massive deficit inflicted upon us by your generation, as you are trying to claim. 

Donovan Arnold

--- On Thu, 3/31/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] American arrogance and arms accounting (was: NPR)
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 2:42 PM

3 is not a majority Donovan! Sorry if I don't reply to you again but I've explained why.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

No, this is just rhetorical babble from the babyboomers, Joe.

The fact is, regardless of your thinking that being almost 70 is too old, the leaders of Congress when Clinton took office were not of the Babyboomer generation. Clinton was in fact barely in his 40s when he took office. 

Tom Foley (D-WA) of Spokane was Speaker of the House, Born 1929
Not a babyboomer.

Senate Majority Leader
George John Mitchell, Jr., Born August 20, 1933,
Not a Babyboomer. 

Assistant Majority Leader
Wendell Hampton Ford born September 8, 1924
Not a Babyboomer

The idea of balancing the budget did not originate with Clinton. Truman balanced the budget as did most Presidents. It was in fact (Henry) Ross Perot, born June 27, 1930, not a babyboomer, that made Clinton balance the budget. Clinton had to balance the budget otherwise Perot would have sheered off enough votes from him to lose in the 1996 reelection, like what happened to George W. Bush in 1992. 

Again though, it is entertaining to read your defense of the Babyboomers supposed accomplishments. Even if I give you that Babyboomers balanced the budget for few years on paper, it still doesn't make up for the damage they have done and is irrelevant considering the massive deficit we endure today.

Yes, I am very real Joe. It is you that are a fake person. I don't believe a philosophy professor could be as arrogant and wrongheaded as you. All my philosophy teachers were smart, level headed, well rounded, respectful of others , could listen and acknowledge the value and difference between fact and opinion. You believe only what you want and lash out at anyone that disagrees with your opinion. A vast many people on Vision 2020 know I am real, and know me personally because they have met me and even worked with me on various projects, campaigns while I was a student at UI. I was born in Moscow. My family, including dozens of members, have been on the Palouse since the 1940s or before. How long has yours? Where were you born? My flesh comes from what is now beneath the soil you walk upon. 

Donovan Arnold

--- On Thu, 3/31/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] American arrogance and arms accounting (was: NPR)
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Kris Freitag" <kfreitag at roadrunner.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 9:47 AM

This is just a tea party distortion of history. Congress did not come up with the idea to lower the deficit; Clinton did. And are you saying that the majority of congress during Clinton's presidency were from the WWII generation? Clinton was president from 1993-2001. Baby boomers started in 1943. Folks who were 20 years old during WWII were close to 70 years old in 1993! Are you saying the congress of the Clinton years was made up of a majority of 70 year olds? Holy crap. Do the lies ever stop with you folks?

Can one of you tea party crackpots say one thing without (1) telling a lie or (2) reasoning toward it via some fallacy? I'm sure you can. I'm sure that the tea party is made up of intelligent folks as well as crackpots. But where are they?

Donovan, I challenge you to prove in some why that you are not Glenn Schwaller or some local radical rightwing crackpot. You sound like one. Could we do lunch or something, something to show us that you are in fact who you say you are and not some liar like GS? You seem to be a liar.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

Kris,

WOW! You are bragging that the babyboomer generation is not a total waste to society because one of them was president when the WWII generation that controlled congress managed to balance the budget on paper for about four years?
Seems like you are grasping at straws here. I mean, what good did that do anyway when it resulted in a total economic meltdown, a whopping insurmountable debt, a defunded educational system, a destroyed environment, and a hopeless future for the next few generations for the first time in US history? I am sure that a four year balanced budget will be a side note in the history books, but the babyboomers will no doubt demand a cookie for this accomplishment and the next two generations cookies too and leave the crumbs for everyone else to clean up, for doing what they are suppose to do a few times, actually balance a check book. 

Donovan Arnold

--- On Wed, 3/30/11, Kris Freitag <kfreitag at roadrunner.com> wrote:

From: Kris Freitag <kfreitag at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] American arrogance and arms accounting (was: NPR)
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 6:40 PM

Must I point out that a mere 10 years ago a baby boomer president namely Bill Clinton had the US insurmountable debt on the plus side of zero. How soon we forget! According to the CBO, the U.S. last had a surplus during fiscal year (FY) 2001. Damn what a short memory. So yes it must be the baby boomers  fault.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Donovan Arnold 
To: Joe Campbell 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] American arrogance and arms accounting (was: NPR)

Yes Joe, I blame the Babyboomer generation as opposed to blaming a political group that has existed for less than a few years for being the cause of all of America's problems.

I don't think the Teaparty, for as annoying and wrong as they are, have any real influence on current and past major events leading to the insurmountable debt and problems we face today. Perhaps you can explain how they are and the Babyboomers were not?

Donovan Arnold

--- On Wed, 3/30/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] American arrogance and arms accounting (was: NPR)
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 4:27 PM

Right. Blame a generation. That's helpful.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

I just think a lot of the fraud and financial crisis is the result of the Babyboomers. You cannot really tag it on any one particular political group, or one person. Babyboomers have spend more money than any other generation before it, including those that fought WWII. They have indebted the nation beyond the capability of future generations to pay back and live any type of quality of life. They have burned more fuel then all the previous generation before or after combined. I won't even get into the environmental disasters they have plagued the world over with. They have behaved as greedy pigs at the trough. With the trough being the fruits of labor of previous and future generations. 

Donovan Arnold

--- On Wed, 3/30/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] American arrogance and arms accounting (was: NPR)
To: "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at frontier.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 3:06 PM

Thanks, Ken. This is exactly why I can't take criticisms of NPR seriously. How many times does Roger complain about about how we don't have enough money? Yet how little does he talk about the kinds of waste that you note below, wastes from the military and monetary losses caused by unchecked members of the business community? If it were really about MONEY we'd get criticisms of more than NPR and education. And the fact is once you do away with adequate news sources and gut American education it is going to be a lot harder for the average folk to spot the lies and fallacies of the tea baggers.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Kenneth Marcy <kmmos1 at frontier.com> wrote:

On Wednesday 30 March 2011 13:05:19 Joe Campbell wrote:
> We're not spending too much on NPR! We spend more bombing Libya in one day
> than a year's worth of NPR! I don't see any good arguments supporting your
> case. That's all.

American aggression overseas, however much it may be in aid of moral causes,
is unmatched by its awful armaments accounting at home. If one wishes to be
aware of the most egregious levels of American aggression, look at the artless
accounting appeasement that has continued for decades among those who claim
accounting and auditing expertise and the American military establishment.

The military-industrial complex of contractors and their aides, accomplices,
and accessories have failed to produce understandable, comprehensive, audited
financial statements for American military activities for as long as anyone can
remember. This financial and managerial reporting void should be a source of
perpetual embarrassment to anyone who claims to have any sense of federal
fiscal or taxpayer concern.

Ken

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