[Vision2020] evil in Tucson
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Tue Jan 11 15:53:38 PST 2011
2004? Democratic advisor Mark Penn? Liberal Hollywood?
No wonder you won't use your real name!
On Jan 11, 2011, at 2:20 PM, Glenn Schwaller <vpschwaller at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmmm . . . In 2004 the DNC posted an actual "Targeting Strategy"
>
> http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171
>
> More recently West Virginia Senate candidate Joe Manchin actually shot
> the cap-and-trade emissions bill with a rifle.
>
> Even more recently Democratic advisor Mark Penn advocated Obama
> "reconnecting" with the people through the Arizona tragedy, much the
> same way Clinton "reconnected" through the Oklahoma bombing.
>
> Liberal Hollywood's movie "Death of a President” aimed at George Bush
>
> Postage stamps with a gun pointed at Bush's head
>
> "Abort Sarah Palin" bumper stickers
>
> Obama himself: “Whose ass to kick” "Bring a gun to a knife fight”
> “Argue with neighbors, get in their face” “Gearing up for a fight”
> “Hit back twice as hard” “My grandmother acted like a typical white
> person”
>
> And the list goes on. Statements of the nature of "targeting",
> "taking aim", "its a war" on and on, are used and have been used by
> all political groups since probably the origin of "politics".
>
> I'll make it short and sweet: Citing conservative rhetoric as a fuse
> for the shootings, or for inciting any violence for that matter, is
> just stupid.
>
> GS
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Be fair and find the quotes Roger. I bet you can't. Prove me wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2011, at 10:19 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't like those statements either and I quit listening to Gordon Liddey when he advocated using silhouettes of Bill and Hillary for target practice. To be fair though you should now make a list of similar statement made by people on the left. That list would be just as long or longer.
>>> Roger
>>> -----Original message-----
>>> From: Reggie Holmquist reggieholmquist at u.boisestate.edu
>>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:31:43 -0800
>>> To: the lockshop lockshop at pull.twcbc.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson
>>>
>>>> 1.
>>>>
>>>> Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough
>>>> so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never
>>>> forget what these people stood for."
>>>> 2.
>>>>
>>>> Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're
>>>> hunting Democrats with dogs."
>>>> 3.
>>>>
>>>> Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him,
>>>> censure him, assassinate him."
>>>> 4.
>>>>
>>>> John Derbyshire intimated in the National Review that because Chelsea
>>>> Clinton had "the taint," she should "be killed."
>>>> 5.
>>>>
>>>> Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to
>>>> physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be
>>>> killed, too."
>>>> 6.
>>>>
>>>> Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the
>>>> New York Times building."
>>>> 7.
>>>>
>>>> Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we
>>>> could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send
>>>> over the FBI and just put them in chains."
>>>> 8.
>>>>
>>>> Clear Channel radio host Glenn Beck said he was "thinking about killing
>>>> Michael Moore" and pondered whether "I could kill him myself, or if I would
>>>> need to hire somebody to do it," before concluding: "No, I think I could I
>>>> think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be
>>>> choking the life out -- is this wrong?"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:26 PM, the lockshop <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No "two wrongs" game being played anywhere I can see. In your earlier
>>>>> posts you rather shrilly insisted that the "violent rhetoric" was a one
>>>>> sided phenomenon emanating predominantly from the right and I offered a few
>>>>> examples to show your error. Nothing more and nothing less. I did not
>>>>> contend that anything was OK because the other side was doing it as well. My
>>>>> reason for responding to you at all was that I think that using tragedy to
>>>>> attempt to score cheap political points is not helpful to say the very
>>>>> least.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to your question of where I stand on the issue, it depends on your
>>>>> sensibilities and semantics. I have no real problem with analogy such as
>>>>> Obama used nor with NSA's. On the other hand, if you say that BHO is evil
>>>>> incarnate, is responsible for all that is ailling the country and must be
>>>>> stopped immeadiately by any and all means possible, I think you've stepped
>>>>> over the edge in the same way that showing photos of GWB with captions
>>>>> saying 'assassinate this man' are over the top. One is analogy and the other
>>>>> is incitement and it doesn't require genius to tell the difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> In any compitition it's natural to use terms of conflict such as beat,
>>>>> fight, target, eliminate and so on and a reasonable person understands this
>>>>> and doesn't read more into it then is intended. A lunatic might hear it and
>>>>> do something awful. They might also hear something quite innocuous and
>>>>> freak. Should we tip toe about and censor our every word so as not to set
>>>>> off the nut balls? Or should the rhetoric police relax and realize that
>>>>> the crazies will sometimes go off for reasons indecipherable by the sane.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> g
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "the lockshop" <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com>
>>>>> Cc: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 2:37 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary,
>>>>>
>>>>> You keep playing this "two wrongs" game.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to know where you stand on it. My view is that violent
>>>>> rhetoric is wrong. It was wrong for Obama to make that kind of comment
>>>>> if it was directed toward his political enemies. Just because I'm a
>>>>> Democrat and voted for him doesn't make it right. What's your view? Do
>>>>> you think it was wrong for him to say this and that such violent
>>>>> rhetoric, directed at one's political opponents is wrong? Or do you
>>>>> think it is OK for folks to say this sort of thing?
>>>>>
>>>>> The view can't be that it was wrong for Obama but not for, say, NSA or
>>>>> Palin. But which is: wrong for both groups or OK for both? I think it
>>>>> is wrong for both.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:40 AM, the lockshop <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I assume that by violent rhetoric you would include comments made by
>>>>> those
>>>>>> who are the last word in "viable presidential candidate."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in
>>>>>> Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly
>>>>>> like a good brawl..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess from now on instead of targeting voters, candidates, or positions
>>>>> we
>>>>>> will speak of humanely capturing them to returned to a safe area where
>>>>> they
>>>>>> can live out the remained of their lives surrounded by love and comfort> >
>>>>>> g
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>>>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:05 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson
>>>>>>> Furthermore . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The ONLY person that should be held directly responsible for the murders
>>>>>>> in Tuscon is Jared Loughner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The grandizing by Phelps of such heinous murderous activity as that
>>>>>>> committed by Loughner takes on an even worse stench when coupled with
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> "target map" and comments like "Don't retread, reload" and "Second
>>>>>>> amendment remedies" feed the imbalanced minds of those like Jared
>>>>> Loughner
>>>>>>> with a false sense of patriotism when they commit such acts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Certainly, average, well-adjust people can easily distinguish between
>>>>>>> controversial commentary and violent rhetoric, but . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How many Jared Loughners are we to confront before sources of such
>>>>>>> rhetoric are called in to account?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, January 10, 2011 9:47 am, keely emerinemix wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It took all of five minutes, Visionaires, for my conscience to to
>>>>> remind
>>>>>>>> me that describing even someone as evil as Fred Phelps as less than
>>>>> human
>>>>>>>> was wrong of me. I believe his works to be those of an evil man,
>>>>>>>> something I can't imagine anyone not named "Phelps" would disagree with
>>>>>>>> and something I think Scripture would affirm, but I used language in
>>>>>>>> anger
>>>>>>>> that I have criticized in others, and I'm sorry for it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I trust that if Dale Courtney uses my initial Phelps post on his blog,
>>>>>>>> he'll have the integrity to refer to this one as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Keely
>>>>>>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: kjajmix1 at msn.com
>>>>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:35:11 -0800
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My brother in Tucson says that unmitigated barbarian evil in the form
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the Rev. Fred Phelps will descend later this week on the city as the
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> victims of the shooting will be released from the hospital and funerals
>>>>>>>> for the dead will begin. Phelps will be praising God for the massacre
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> lauding the work of Jared Lee Loughner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The description of Phelps above is mine; my angry and distraught
>>>>>>>> brother's
>>>>>>>> words were utterly unfit for quoting, just as Phelps' is utterly unfit
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> claim the title "Reverend," or even the designation "human."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Keely
>>>>>>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
>>>>> change
>>>>>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Unknown
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what
>>>> the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be
>>>> replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another
>>>> theory which states that this has already happened.
>>>>
>>>> Douglas Adams
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>> =======================================================
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>> =======================================================
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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