[Vision2020] the shooting

the lockshop lockshop at pull.twcbc.com
Tue Jan 11 11:50:34 PST 2011 

Actually, my "logic" is that the murderer is almost certainly unhinged and shot an ungodly number of innocents because he's a sick twisted malcontent. I doubt that political rhetoric from either side of the right/left spectrum had much to do with his actions. As someone else on the list said, It's as likely he recieved his notions from a talking dog. I do not think that he's a "radical left wing socialist" and I don't think he's a right wing reactionary and I think that blindly firing off accusations at Sarah Palin, the tea party and conservatives in general is unfair, unfounded, and unhelpful. I really don't know how I could make myself any clearer on this topic.

g
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
To: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] the shooting


> Here's Mr. Crabtree's logic . . .
> 
> Judging by his readings and interests, Loughner must be a radical
> left-wing socialist.  So, naturally he shoots the only Democrat in his
> congressional district.
> 
> Right, g?
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> On Tue, January 11, 2011 10:19 am, Joe Campbell wrote:
>> Explain to me how Obama has closer ties to Che and communism than Palin.
>> Why would you say that?
>>
>> And I'm not "blaming" anyone but the shooter.
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2011, at 10:02 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You  have somewhat  of a point in saying that insane people can be
>>> influenced to kill someone. What is wrong is in blaming it on the right
>>> with out a shred of evidence. The guy was a fan of Che Guavaria(sp) and
>>> the Communist Manifesto. It would seem to me you folks are blaming the
>>> wrong side. Obama, Biden, Van Jones and a host of other democrats  have
>>> also made inflammatory statement. A lot of military terms are used in
>>> ordinary speech and should not be taken literally. If you condemned all
>>> rhetoric that might somehow incite someone to violence I would be more
>>> impressed. That however would place a severe restriction on what can be
>>> said.
>>> Roger
>>> -----Original message-----
>>> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:47:04 -0800
>>> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] the shooting
>>>
>>>> Roger,
>>>>
>>>> How does the fact that he was insane change the issue?
>>>>
>>>> If one pays a man to kill another, does he get off if it turns out
>>>> that the killer was insane?
>>>>
>>>> Can I hire an insane man to rob a bank an split the profits? After
>>>> all, if he gets caught, I can always say he's insane so I can't be
>>>> blamed for anything, right?
>>>>
>>>> Is anyone allowed to ask any insane person do do whatever they wish
>>>> and suffer no consequences if he does it?
>>>>
>>>> People in positions of political power, like Palin, should not be
>>>> creating posters with crosshairs designating their political enemies.
>>>> That is over the top, inappropriate, and irresponsible PRECISELY
>>>> because there are insane people in the world who might take it
>>>> seriously.
>>>>
>>>> What could possibly be wrong with this criticism?
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 12:53 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>>>>  On item Item 3.  The media and numerous others have been linking the
>>>>> shooting to the right with out a shred of evidence. It has also been
>>>>> reported that the Communist manifesto was one of his favorite books.
>>>>> Does this mean that the left wing is responsible? No. All of this
>>>>> unsubstantiated rhetoric by the media and others is irresponsible. He
>>>>> was a nut job, pure and simple. End of story.
>>>>> Roger
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original message-----
>>>>> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>>>> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 20:51:25 -0800
>>>>> To: Gary Crabtree jampot at roadrunner.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] the shooting
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary there are folks throwing out crazy rightwing rhetoric who have
>>>>>> TV shows, who run for governmental office.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are nuts on both sides, no doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But there aren't TV and radio hosts from the left, let alone
>>>>>> candidates running for office, who are openly saying the same things
>>>>>> the nuts are saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nor are there leftwing schools using violent rhetoric in their ad
>>>>>> campaigns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2011, at 7:43 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the unstable left wing over the top rhetoric of rabid animal
>>>>>>> rights groups, earth firsters, truthers, and the endlessly droning
>>>>>>> Bush lied/people died crowd don't? Lumping Courtney, Wilson, the tea
>>>>>>> party folks, and conservatives in general as a group with even a
>>>>>>> smattering of responsibility for this tragedy is over the top by any
>>>>>>> standard. Even yours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: keely emerinemix
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:23 PM
>>>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] the shooting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the interest of transparency, I want to say that I've heard
>>>>>>> indirectly from Dale Courtney and directly from Douglas Wilson, both
>>>>>>> of whom, not surprisingly, take umbrage at my characterization that
>>>>>>> people like them bear some responsibility for things like the
>>>>>>> politically motivated shootings in Tucson.  You can look on Dale's
>>>>>>> blog, and I won't post Wilson's emails to me without his permission,
>>>>>>> but when I take my hits for something I've said or done in public, I
>>>>>>> am not afraid to acknowledge those hits in public.  But let's be
>>>>>>> clear.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did not say that Douglas Wilson and Dale Courtney shot anyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did not say they are accountable for the actions of the man who
>>>>>>> did.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did not say they are guilty in the same way the shooter is, and I
>>>>>>> didn't say they specifically, personally encouraged him to do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I said was that people who say the kinds of things these two
>>>>>>> prominent local Christians have said, and say them in the ugly and
>>>>>>> intolerant, public way they've said them, are responsible for the
>>>>>>> climate that helps tip unstable, paranoid anti-government types over
>>>>>>> the edge.  That doesn't seem too difficult to comprehend, and
>>>>>>> certainly wouldn't seem to be too difficult for these two men of
>>>>>>> chest to bear.  Frankly, if Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik has
>>>>>>> concluded that the atmosphere of hatred and abuse swamping the
>>>>>>> country these days has incubated actions like the shootings today,
>>>>>>> it hardly seems odd that those of us who live in a place where our
>>>>>>> neighbors contribute so nakedly to that atmosphere would remark on
>>>>>>> their culpability for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keely
>>>>>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
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>>
> 
> 
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> 
> - Unknown
> 
> 
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