[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

Sat Dec 31 19:25:12 PST 2011

Sunil,

1.  I believe the (second) war on Iraq was a huge mistake, but not the first.

2.  There are parts of the defense budget that need trimming.  However, without going into detail, we are faced with serious global predatory threats.  It would be foolish not to anticipate and to prepare for them.  I think much more effort needs to be made against cyber threats and waging cyber war.  Further, though not a Defense Department item, I think money needs to be spent in various effective ways to wage peace.  Unlike many, I believe in the very limited use of pre-emptive strikes, and very limited using lethal force, if necessary, in dealing with those terrorists who have murdered U.S. citizens in our country, territories, or havens like embassy/consular grounds or are seriously planning to do so.*  I strongly believe in the right of self-defense both nationally and personally.

3.  I believe very strongly in due process and civil rights.  I am appalled by allowing imprisonment without due process and allowing search/seizure/snooping without court process. 

4.  I think many presidents, including Obama, have acted outside their constitutional powers.  However, it is the Supreme Court's opinion that matters here, not mine.  Given any of these issues, argument can be made on both sides *including the assignation of terrorists on foreign soil.  With respect to the latter, I believe the Supreme Court would agree that such actions are constitutional in limited circumstances.  Sooner or later there will probably be test cases in the Supreme Court about the constitutionality of the above items.  There is one now about the use of ISPs and telecom companies helping law enforcement snoop without court process (this is going on in Latah County right now).

Some of the views above are consistent with some of what Ron Paul claims to believe.  However, as I said before:  He is a phony libertarian: he is against reproductive rights and other civil rights; he has vocally aligned himself on these matters with the religious right.  He has so far refused to repudiate racist and others crackpot views or disassociate himself from hate groups that support him.  His denial about the racist and other foolhardy remarks in his letters being his are far from convincing, but worst of all he has not repudiated the substance of those remarks.

As Tom Hansen said.  These matters are not the only issues.  To some they may be the most important like abortion or gay marriage is to others.  Despite his being a so-called free market believer, he appears to be clueless about how the economy actually works.

Uncompromising idealists, whatever flavor, seldom make good leaders.  There is too much uncertainty in our knowledge to trust someone who believes they are right on all issues and everyone who disagrees with them are wrong.

w.

From: Sunil Ramalingam 
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:12 PM
Cc: vision 2020 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a minute.

Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the defense budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?

What say you, Keely, Wayne, Saundra, Tom?

Sunil

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Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: deco at moscow.com
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

He has admitted to putting out an investment newsletter that (as far as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that printed the racist comments.  It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about what will happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash, most of which have come true - just not in the way he thought.  Try taking a large pile of cash through airport security and see how well that goes.

Another distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently succeeds in its goals.  Or maybe this is just jumping on the bandwagon, since it is the Daily Mail, after all.

Paul

On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco wrote: 
  See:

  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html

  Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself acknowledging the letters, etc.

  All javascript scripts must be allowed in order to see the whole article including the videos.

  w.

  From: Paul Rumelhart 
  Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM
  To: keely emerinemix 
  Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

  Does it matter whether or not the allegations are true?  Or do we just call them out anyway?

  Here is an article from CBS News about the newsletters: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/

  The article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:  

  "When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the product," he said. "For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my name."

  I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman is losing to Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign on a strong showing there.

  I got that last bit from this article: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/

  And once again, this is only out there in order to distract us.  These people could care less if it's even true.  It's just convenient.

  Paul

  On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote: 
    I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or even the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent provocation.  That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned -- and I believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.  

    Keely
    www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

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    Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
    Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:41:13 -0800
    From: jborden at datawedge.com
    To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com

    I’m not *defending* racism, I’m commenting on the mere finger-pointing and accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear weapon in a political arsenal.  

    It’s used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics.  (And, unless I missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point).

    Insert story of “crying wolf”.

    Jay

    From: keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com] 
    Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:27 PM
    To: Jay Borden; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
    Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

    Jay, I would rue the day that racist behavior and bigoted views become irrelevant in how we choose our leaders.  There are issues that truly good people can disagree on; racism, however, is never the view of a "truly good person," and in fact ought to, by virtue of popular outcry, immediately make a pariah out of the one who embraces it.

    Keely
    www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

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    Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:17:33 -0800
    From: jborden at datawedge.com
    To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

    I would agree with Paul’s statement… but I would word it a bit differently to deflect some of the immediate hatred I’m sure will be heading my way.

    I would say that racism, like abortion and gay marriage are *USED* as theatrical issues.  

    It’s interesting as soon as any candidate becomes popular in the polls, some wild-card story gets tossed about dealing with one of these issues.  Then it’s pressed as long as necessary until the candidate just “goes away”.

    Rick Perry (again, not a fan) was gaining traction… and then suddenly a story about “Niggerhead” surfaced.  (He has since nearly imploded on his own, but that’s a separate issue).

    Ron Paul gains even more traction this time around in the polls… and suddenly some story connecting HIM to racisim surfaces.  (I don’t recall anything coming up about this story 4 years ago when he was running for President).

    The topics themselves are extremely important… but the *USE* of these subjects has become nothing more than positioning and theatrical tools.   

    Is your opponent getting too much positive attention?  No problem… just toss out one of these venomous statements (who cares whether it’s true or not… just phrase it in the form of an “objective question” like Fox News does to avoid slander/libel)… and then sit back and watch the show.

    Once some story making any of these accusations hits the public… it’s like kryptonite… and it’s used as such. 

    Jay

    From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Saundra Lund
    Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 12:03 PM
    To: vision2020 at moscow.com
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

    In part, Paul wrote:

    “Racism, like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".  They are issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs for them to fight over.  While they are important in and of themselves, they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power than we think we do.”

    Yes, I do suppose it’s a lot easier to look at issues like racism, abortion, and gay marriage as “theatrical issues” when you’re not the minority family unable to rent a home due to racism, and you’re not the 17-year-old incest victim forced to carry your granddaddy’s baby or risk death from a backdoor abortion, and you’re not the lesbian at risk of losing custody of your children born via IVF to your now-deceased 15 year partner because her family never “approved” of the non-marriage.

    Yuppers – I guess for some, it is a lot easier to take the position that those issues, while “important,” really are just “theatrical issues” when one isn’t the target, when one lacks of empathy . . . or when one lacks the sense God gave a billy goat.

    Not in my America.  I agree with Sue’s comment, “All rights and even some privileges should belong to all citizens” and shouldn’t depend on where in the US one lives.

    Paul also wrote:

    “In my opinion we should concentrate on our civil liberties . . .”

    I guess I’m unclear as to how you define “civil liberties,” but reproductive freedom & gay marriage both fit into my definition of the right of privacy, which is an important US civil liberty.

    Saundra Lund

    Moscow, ID

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.

    ~ Edmund Burke

    From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
    Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:37 AM
    To: vision2020 at moscow.com
    Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

    I sent this only to Sue, when I meant to send it to the list.

    Paul

    ----- Forwarded Message -----
    From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
    To: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> 
    Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:32 AM
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism

    It doesn't negate the evidence.  For what it's worth, he claims that he didn't write those newsletters that were put out in his name.  Like you've shown, a person can be compassionate and still be racist.  Being racist is not a black and white thing, no pun intended.  It's something that can change over a period of years.  I grew up in a casually racist household, and had to unlearn much of that over the years, as did my parents.  It's easy to fall into that trap when you grow up with it and everyone around you thinks the same thing.  As society changed, so did those around me, and so did I.

    I've said this many times on the Viz:  I'm not looking for Jesus Christ or Gandhi when I'm looking for a Presidential candidate to vote for.  I want someone who will perform well in the job.

    So the question is, assuming he is some kind of die-hard racist from the sixties like he's being portrayed, is he going to deny blacks the right to vote or serve on juries?

    Racism, like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".  They are issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs for them to fight over.  While they are important in and of themselves, they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power than we think we do.  In my opinion we should concentrate on our civil liberties, and in stopping the steady power buildup for the Executive branch that's been going on for years.  That's far more dangerous to us in the short term than any of these hot button issues are.  Like Sunil said in another post, it's all about priorities.

    Paul

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    From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
    To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
    Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 10:34 PM
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism

    It’s a lovely story, Paul. And a powerful instance of Ron Paul’s compassion, but how does it negate the evidence of his racism in those published reports?  My Texas grandfather was a racist through and through, yet he performed kind and generous acts to the people he belittled, and to whom he would have denied the vote, the right to serve on juries (along with women) and most especially the right to sit up front in public transportation.  

    Sue H.       

    From: Paul Rumelhart 

    Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 10:18 PM

    To: vision2020 at moscow.com 

    Subject: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism

    Here is a video in response to allegations of racism being leveled at Ron Paul.  It was made by "Revolution PAC", a "superPAC" whose sole purpose is to get Ron Paul elected. It's entitled "The Compassion of Dr. Ron Paul":

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4

    If we're going to attack Ron Paul with allegations of racism on the list, I thought it might be nice to see what his side has to say.

    Paul

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