Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil -- but it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he should be applauded for those views he holds that are correct and challenged on any that you, I, or anyone else disagrees with. It doesn't mean he ought to run for office, or that we ought to vote for him.
There are plenty of people, I imagine, who are right about the issues you mention below who aren't bigots, and who -- perhaps more germane to the conversation -- wouldn't gut the social services that make this country not only habitable (imperfect and imperfectly delivered as they are), but moral. I think you and I see the defense/national security issues fairly similarly, and we likely also applaud Paul's views on legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, and maybe a couple of other issues. Nonetheless, even those areas on which I agree with Paul -- the ones I just mentioned and the ones you did -- aren't enough for me either to vote for him, or overlook what at least the most fervent Paul supporter would acknowledge was carelessness in letting bigots crank out his newsletter.
The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of his social policies will harm more people -- people already marginalized and suffering -- than the hundreds of thousands this and the previous war-courting administrations have. Do I take any comfort in that?
No. Not at all. But I have to vote for the man who seems to have more, better answers than the one who has one or two good ones. And I can't afford to combine the worst of both Obama and Paul by risking the horror of, say, a Perry or Bachmann presidency.
Thanks, Sunil.
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a minute.
Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the defense budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?
What say you, Keely, Wayne, Saundra, Tom?
Sunil
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: deco at moscow.com
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
He has admitted to putting out an investment newsletter that (as far
as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that printed the
racist comments. It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about what
will happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash, most
of which have come true - just not in the way he thought. Try
taking a large pile of cash through airport security and see how
well that goes.
Another distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently
succeeds in its goals. Or maybe this is just jumping on the
bandwagon, since it is the Daily Mail, after all.
Paul
On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco wrote:
See:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html
Scroll down to see the videos
of Paul Himself acknowledging the letters, etc.
All javascript scripts must be
allowed in order to see the whole article including the
videos.
w.
From: Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM
To: keely
emerinemix
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism
Does it matter whether or not the allegations are true? Or do we
just call them out anyway?
Here is an article from CBS News about the newsletters: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/
The article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:
"When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a
newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit.
Several writers contributed to the product," he said. "For over a
decade, I have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying
closer attention to what went out under my name."
I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he
might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman
is losing to Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign
on a strong showing there.
I got that last bit from this article: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/
And once again, this is only out there in order to distract us.
These people could care less if it's even true. It's just
convenient.
Paul
On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
I don't think you're defending racism, racist
behavior, or even the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!"
at the slightest apparent provocation. That said, I think
it's imperative that legitimate indications that an
individual's views on race/gender/class/civil rights/culture
are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned -- and I
believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an
example.
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron
Paul and Racism
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:41:13 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm;
vision2020 at moscow.com
I’m not *defending* racism,
I’m commenting on the mere finger-pointing and
accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear
weapon in a political arsenal.
It’s used as a tool for distraction,
and hence, theatrics. (And, unless I missed the mark,
perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point).
Insert story of “crying wolf”.
Jay
From: keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:27 PM
To: Jay Borden; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm;
vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul
and Racism
Jay, I would rue the day that
racist behavior and bigoted views become irrelevant
in how we choose our leaders. There are issues that
truly good people can disagree on; racism, however,
is never the view of a "truly good person," and in
fact ought to, by virtue of popular outcry,
immediately make a pariah out of the one who
embraces it.
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:17:33
-0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm;
vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism
I would agree with Paul’s
statement… but I would word it a bit differently
to deflect some of the immediate hatred I’m sure
will be heading my way.
I would say that racism, like
abortion and gay marriage are *USED* as
theatrical issues.
It’s interesting as soon as
any candidate becomes popular in the polls, some
wild-card story gets tossed about dealing with
one of these issues. Then it’s pressed as long
as necessary until the candidate just “goes
away”.
Rick Perry (again, not a fan)
was gaining traction… and then suddenly a story
about “Niggerhead” surfaced. (He has since
nearly imploded on his own, but that’s a
separate issue).
Ron Paul gains even more
traction this time around in the polls… and
suddenly some story connecting HIM to racisim
surfaces. (I don’t recall anything coming up
about this story 4 years ago when he was running
for President).
The topics themselves are
extremely important… but the *USE* of
these subjects has become nothing more than
positioning and theatrical tools.
Is your opponent getting too
much positive attention? No problem… just toss
out one of these venomous statements (who cares
whether it’s true or not… just phrase it in the
form of an “objective question” like Fox News
does to avoid slander/libel)… and then sit back
and watch the show.
Once some story making any of
these accusations hits the public… it’s like
kryptonite… and it’s used as such.
Jay
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Saundra Lund
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011
12:03 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron
Paul and Racism
In part, Paul wrote:
“Racism, like
abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical
issues". They are issues that are tossed out to
the American public like scraps to hungry dogs
for them to fight over. While they are
important in and of themselves, they are really
meant to distract us from realizing that we have
more power than we think we do.”
Yes, I do suppose it’s a lot
easier to look at issues like racism, abortion,
and gay marriage as “theatrical issues” when
you’re not the minority family unable to
rent a home due to racism, and you’re not
the 17-year-old incest victim forced to carry
your granddaddy’s baby or risk death from a
backdoor abortion, and you’re not the
lesbian at risk of losing custody of your
children born via IVF to your now-deceased 15
year partner because her family never “approved”
of the non-marriage.
Yuppers – I guess for some, it
is a lot easier to take the position that those
issues, while “important,” really are just
“theatrical issues” when one isn’t the target,
when one lacks of empathy . . . or when one
lacks the sense God gave a billy goat.
Not in my America. I
agree with Sue’s comment, “All rights and even some
privileges should belong to all citizens” and
shouldn’t depend on where in the US one lives.
Paul also wrote:
“In my opinion we
should concentrate on our civil liberties . . .”
I guess I’m unclear as to how
you define “civil liberties,” but reproductive
freedom & gay marriage both fit into my
definition of the right of privacy, which is an
important US civil liberty.
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID
The only thing necessary for
the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
~ Edmund Burke
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011
9:37 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul
and Racism
I sent this
only to Sue, when I meant to send it to the
list.
Paul
-----
Forwarded Message -----
From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
To: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011
9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] On Ron
Paul and Racism
It
doesn't negate the evidence. For
what it's worth, he claims that he
didn't write those newsletters
that were put out in his name.
Like you've shown, a person can be
compassionate and still be
racist. Being racist is not a
black and white thing, no pun
intended. It's something that can
change over a period of years. I
grew up in a casually racist
household, and had to unlearn much
of that over the years, as did my
parents. It's easy to fall into
that trap when you grow up with it
and everyone around you thinks the
same thing. As society changed,
so did those around me, and so did
I.
I've said
this many times on the Viz: I'm
not looking for Jesus Christ or
Gandhi when I'm looking for a
Presidential candidate to vote
for. I want someone who will
perform well in the job.
So the
question is, assuming he is some
kind of die-hard racist from the
sixties like he's being portrayed,
is he going to deny blacks the
right to vote or serve on juries?
Racism,
like abortion and gay marriage,
are all "theatrical issues". They
are issues that are tossed out to
the American public like scraps to
hungry dogs for them to fight
over. While they are important in
and of themselves, they are really
meant to distract us from
realizing that we have more power
than we think we do. In my
opinion we should concentrate on
our civil liberties, and in
stopping the steady power buildup
for the Executive branch that's
been going on for years. That's
far more dangerous to us in the
short term than any of these hot
button issues are. Like Sunil
said in another post, it's all
about priorities.
Paul
From: Sue
Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, December
30, 2011 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
On Ron Paul and Racism
It’s
a lovely story, Paul.
And a powerful
instance of Ron Paul’s
compassion, but how
does it negate the
evidence of his racism
in those published
reports? My Texas
grandfather was a
racist through and
through, yet he
performed kind and
generous acts to the
people he belittled,
and to whom he would
have denied the vote,
the right to serve on
juries (along with
women) and most
especially the right
to sit up front in
public
transportation.
Sue
H.
From: Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Friday,
December 30,
2011 10:18 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject:
[Vision2020] On
Ron Paul and
Racism
Here
is a video in
response to
allegations of
racism being
leveled at Ron
Paul. It was made
by "Revolution
PAC", a "superPAC"
whose sole purpose
is to get Ron Paul
elected. It's
entitled "The
Compassion of Dr.
Ron Paul":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4
If
we're going to
attack Ron Paul
with allegations
of racism on the
list, I thought it
might be nice to
see what his side
has to say.
Paul
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http://www.fsr.net
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serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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