[Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll

Tue Aug 23 18:45:50 PDT 2011

On 08/23/2011 12:19 PM, Art Deco wrote:
> It has been the so-called liberals on this site who have raised the 
> loudest cry against child sexual abuse, spousal sexual abuse, and 
> similar criminal abuses.  That such liberals are against such 
> abhorrent practices doesn't mean that they are against freedom of 
> sexual expression between consenting adults.
> On the other hand, the conservatives, here and elsewhere, have been 
> mostly mute on these child abuse subjects.
> In fact, Paul, you were one of the conservatives defending allowing 
> admitted serial pedophiles such as Steven Sitler the absolute right to 
> marry and to make children. The conservatives, for example, are more 
> interested in railing against gays and gay marriage or at least 
> questioning the value of allowing such marriages than taking a 
> vigorous stand against child sexual molestation and exploitation.

I am far from conservative, my friend.  There are no restrictions in 
place that would not allow him to marry, that I know of.  It was the 
liberal community that wanted to restrict that right of his.  It's up to 
them to convince everyone else why that's a good idea.  The argument 
that he's just going to molest his kids that he might someday have 
somewhere down the road because he's evil or just can't help himself or 
whatever just doesn't sit well with me.

> The ultimate hypocrite, Douglas Wilson, has, in his now diminishing 
> pseudo-ministry, been a screeching railer against pornography.  But 
> all of a sudden faced with declining cult membership, interest in 
> himself and crackpot quasi-theology, and most importantly to him, 
> declining revenue, has resorted to the always successful formula "Sex 
> Sells."  In doing so Wilson hypocritically endorses and promulgates 
> the notion that Mark Driscoll's Blue Movies from Jesus visions are of 
> important spiritual and doctrinal value to his Reformed community 
> despite the fact that the possibility of any visions from Christ are 
> in complete conflict with Wilson's avowed cessationist theological dogma.

This is the true root of the problem.  This guy's existence somehow 
drives little pieces of bamboo underneath your guy's fingernails.  I've 
met Doug.  He's just this guy, same as everyone else.

> Perhaps, you didn't understand what I wrote before:
> Almost everyone has sexual fantasies of various kinds and 
> intensities.  Mark Driscoll is entitled to his.  But for him to claim 
> they are visions from God is delusional, and to broadcast and to 
> celebrate them as such is beyond outré.  And when crackpots/con 
> artists like Wilson who intentionally and for profit promulgate such 
> delusions and celebrations, especially when contrary to their alleged 
> theological beliefs in the name of their alleged God, one can easily 
> see why Rose proclaims: "Worse than anything I could imagine."
> Here is where I disagree with Rose's  "Worse than anything I could 
> imagine."  From my point of view and state of knowledge, my opinion is 
> there is nothing that I could imagine that Wilson would not do to 
> further, to defend, or to protect himself, his sources of revenue, his 
> unquenchable desire for attention and admiration, his desire for power 
> and control, his will to establish a theocracy, etc.

So don't send him any Christmas cards.  So what if he's the exact ideal 
of what you really can't stand in people?  You guys give this guy *way* 
too much power.

> Paul, you write:
> "I must have crossed over into Opposite Land last night when I went to 
> sleep."
> Not such much.  Just another of your cheap rhetorical tricks of 
> twisting what has been said to set up a bale of straw to attack.  But 
> I agree in a way with the quote, except that "last night" should read 
> "many years ago" and "Opposite Land" should read "Just to Be Contrary 
> Land."

I'm not really a "me, too!" kind of guy.  Why spend hours expounding 
about how someone here really "gets it" and how they've hit the nail on 
the head and you're right there with them.  I tend to post more often 
when someone says something I disagree with.  It's usually a more 
interesting conversation, then.  And people tend to say things here that 
I don't agree with often.

Paul

> w.
>
> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:47 AM
> *To:* Art Deco <mailto:deco at moscow.com> ; Moscow Vision 2020 
> <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll
>
> Odd.
>
> Traditionally, it's the liberal community's job to defend all things 
> sexual in nature from the ire of offended puritanical right-wing 
> fundamentalists.
>
> I must have crossed over into Opposite Land last night when I went to 
> sleep.  How do you get back?  Find the portal and travel away from 
> it?  Don't look for it at all and fall into it by mistake?
>
> I hope I figure it out soon.  On the plus side, Facebook is a lot more 
> private here and Microsoft is working hard to get Windows on 10% of 
> user's desktops.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>
> *To:* Moscow Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:14 AM
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll
>
> With all the buzz about the Christ Church Cult's scheduling of 
> sexually obsessed so-called pastor Mark Driscoll who receives 
> pornographic visions from Jesus, a couple of interest comments have 
> passed almost unnoticed.
> Vera White commented briefly about the latest 
> Wilson-steps-on-his-dick-again snafu in last week's /Ink. /**[See 
> complete /Ink/ comment below].
> One paragraph is of special interest:
> The INKster tried for two days to reach Wilson for comment, but was 
> told he was busy with back-to-back meetings. She did however talk to 
> Assistant Pastor Mike Lawyer Friday who explained the conference might 
> attract "people from all over the world" and the agenda would include 
> a Minister's Conference for men titled "The Puritan Five," and for 
> females a session called "Dangerous Women."
> First, Wilson, whose invitation to Driscoll and inept, illogical 
> defense of that invitation has been widely criticized and lampooned in 
> the Reformed Community of which Wilson is the alleged leader(at least 
> for now), hasn't got the courage to discuss it very far outside his 
> own cloistered circle.
> Second, a friend who is not on V2020 but reads the /Ink/ asked me if 
> it was possible that Mike Lawyer possibly misspoke or was misquoted in 
> the above paragraph.  She wonders instead of "people from all over the 
> world", what was really should have appeared was "perverts from all 
> over the world."
> w.
> ____________________________
> Vera White, /The Ink, Moscow-Pullman Daily News/
> ....
> The INKster had never heard of Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill 
> Church in Seattle until the outraged postings started appearing on 
> Vision2020 this week. What stirred up such solid citizens as Saundra 
> Lund of Moscow is
> Nazarene Church Pastor Ed Eby's willingness to rent his Church for an 
> appearance by Driscoll.
> "I cannot imagine that the community will be overly impressed that the 
> Nazarene Church has rented itself out for a 'sexinar,' " Lund concluded.
> In Eby's defense, he rented out his church to Doug Wilson and Christ 
> Church elders, sponsors of Driscoll's appearance next month at a 
> conference titled "The Grace Agenda: All of Christ for All of Life for 
> All The World."
> Driscoll has a blog on which in 2008 he answered such questions as: 
> Can I perform anal sex on my wife? Can we use sex toys? My wife likes 
> to masturbate me upon occasion and wants to know how to get better at 
> it. What should she do?
> The INKster tried for two days to reach Wilson for comment, but was 
> told he was busy with back-to-back meetings. She did however talk to 
> Assistant Pastor Mike Lawyer Friday who explained the conference might 
> attract "people from all over the world" and the agenda would include 
> a Minister's Conference for men titled "The Puritan Five," and for 
> females a session called "Dangerous Women."
> How well does Lawyer know Driscoll?
> "I've read some of his recent stuff," Lawyer said. "We feel his stuff 
> is appropriate and like him as far as we know. We respect him and his 
> ministry."
> The INKster tried to reach Eby but ended up talking to temporary 
> church secretary Mary Jane Bauer.
> "Pastor Eby doesn¹t want to talk about Driscoll right now as he says 
> he is still researching the matter," said Bauer, who has been a member 
> of the church for 30 years. "I've never heard of Driscoll, but we rent 
> out the church to many different groups.²
> After the INKster explained a bit about Driscoll's style, Bauer said 
> she "highly doubts she will be attending."
> ...the blotter rests.
> _______________________
> Wayne A. Fox
> wayne.a.fox at gmail.com <mailto:wayne.a.fox at gmail.com>
>
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