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On 08/23/2011 12:19 PM, Art Deco wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:407DC4E164D747C4AB21C559E566A482@cobra"
type="cite">
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<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">It has been the so-called
liberals on this site who have raised the loudest cry against
child sexual abuse, spousal sexual abuse, and similar criminal
abuses. That such liberals are against such abhorrent
practices doesn't mean that they are against freedom of sexual
expression between consenting adults.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">On the other hand, the
conservatives, here and elsewhere, have been mostly mute on
these child abuse subjects. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">In fact, Paul, you were one of
the conservatives defending allowing admitted serial
pedophiles such as Steven Sitler the absolute right to marry
and to make children. The conservatives, for example, are more
interested in railing against gays and gay marriage or at
least questioning the value of allowing such marriages than
taking a vigorous stand against child sexual molestation and
exploitation.</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I am far from conservative, my friend. There are no restrictions in
place that would not allow him to marry, that I know of. It was the
liberal community that wanted to restrict that right of his. It's
up to them to convince everyone else why that's a good idea. The
argument that he's just going to molest his kids that he might
someday have somewhere down the road because he's evil or just can't
help himself or whatever just doesn't sit well with me. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:407DC4E164D747C4AB21C559E566A482@cobra"
type="cite">
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">The ultimate hypocrite, Douglas
Wilson, has, in his now diminishing pseudo-ministry, been a
screeching railer against pornography. But all of a sudden
faced with declining cult membership, interest in himself and
crackpot quasi-theology, and most importantly to him,
declining revenue, has resorted to the always successful
formula "Sex Sells." In doing so Wilson
hypocritically endorses and promulgates the notion that Mark
Driscoll's Blue Movies from Jesus visions are of important
spiritual and doctrinal value to his Reformed community
despite the fact that the possibility of any visions from
Christ are in complete conflict with Wilson's avowed </font><font
face="Verdana" size="2">cessationist theological dogma.</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
This is the true root of the problem. This guy's existence somehow
drives little pieces of bamboo underneath your guy's fingernails.
I've met Doug. He's just this guy, same as everyone else. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:407DC4E164D747C4AB21C559E566A482@cobra"
type="cite">
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Perhaps, you didn't understand</font> <font
face="Verdana" size="2">what I wrote before:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Verdana" size="2">Almost
everyone has sexual fantasies of various kinds and
intensities. Mark Driscoll is entitled to his. But for
him to claim they are visions from God is delusional, and
to broadcast and to celebrate them as such is beyond
outré. And when crackpots/con artists like Wilson who
intentionally and for profit promulgate such delusions and
celebrations, especially when contrary to their alleged
theological beliefs in the name of their alleged God, one
can easily see why Rose proclaims: "Worse than anything I
could imagine."</font></div>
</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Here is where I disagree with
Rose's "Worse than anything I could imagine." From my point
of view and state of knowledge, my opinion is there is nothing
that I could imagine that Wilson would not do to further, to
defend, or to protect himself, his sources of revenue, his
unquenchable desire for attention and admiration, his desire
for power and control, his will to establish a theocracy, etc.</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
So don't send him any Christmas cards. So what if he's the exact
ideal of what you really can't stand in people? You guys give this
guy *way* too much power.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:407DC4E164D747C4AB21C559E566A482@cobra"
type="cite">
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Paul, you write:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff">"I must have crossed over into
Opposite Land last night when I went to sleep."</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Not such much. Just another of
your cheap rhetorical tricks of twisting what has been said to
set up a bale of straw to attack. But I agree in a way with
the quote, except that "last night" should read "many years
ago" and "Opposite Land" should read "Just to Be Contrary
Land."</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm not really a "me, too!" kind of guy. Why spend hours expounding
about how someone here really "gets it" and how they've hit the nail
on the head and you're right there with them. I tend to post more
often when someone says something I disagree with. It's usually a
more interesting conversation, then. And people tend to say things
here that I don't agree with often.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:407DC4E164D747C4AB21C559E566A482@cobra"
type="cite">
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">w.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt Tahoma;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(245, 245,
245);">
<div style=""><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:47 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mailto:deco@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</a> ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow Vision 2020</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes,
& Mark Driscoll</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family:
times new roman,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-size: 12pt;">
<div><span>Odd.</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>Traditionally, it's the liberal community's job to
defend all things sexual in nature from the ire of offended
puritanical right-wing fundamentalists.</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>I must have crossed over into Opposite Land last
night when I went to sleep. How do you get back? Find the
portal and travel away from it? Don't look for it at all
and fall into it by mistake?</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>I hope I figure it out soon. On the plus side,
Facebook is a lot more private here and Microsoft is working
hard to get Windows on 10% of user's desktops.<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>Paul<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;
font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;
font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Arial" size="2">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Art
Deco <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><deco@moscow.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Moscow
Vision 2020 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><Vision2020@moscow.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:14 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll<br>
</font><br>
<div id="yiv1737482642">
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">With all the buzz about
the Christ Church Cult's scheduling of sexually
obsessed so-called pastor Mark Driscoll who receives
pornographic visions from Jesus, a couple of interest
comments have passed almost unnoticed.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Vera White commented
briefly about the latest
Wilson-steps-on-his-dick-again snafu in last week's <i>Ink.
</i><b> </b>[See complete <i>Ink</i> comment below].</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">One paragraph is of
special interest:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;" class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(244,
244, 244); color: black; font-size: 11pt;"><font
color="#0000ff">The INKster tried for two days to
reach Wilson for comment, but was told he was busy
with back-to-back meetings. She did however talk
to Assistant Pastor Mike Lawyer Friday who
explained the conference might attract "people
from all over the world" and the agenda would
include a Minister's Conference for men titled
"The Puritan Five," and for females a session
called "Dangerous Women."</font></span></div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">First, Wilson, whose
invitation to Driscoll and inept, illogical defense of
that invitation has been widely criticized and
lampooned in the Reformed Community of which Wilson is
the alleged leader(at least for now), hasn't got
the courage to discuss it very far outside his own
cloistered circle. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Second, a friend who is
not on V2020 but reads the <i>Ink</i> asked me if it
was possible that Mike Lawyer possibly misspoke or was
misquoted in the above paragraph. She wonders instead
of <font style="background-color: rgb(244, 244,
244);" color="#0000ff" face="Times New Roman"
size="3">"people from all over the world"<font
style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">, </font></font></font><font
face="Verdana" size="2">what was really should have
appeared was "perverts from all over the world."</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">w.</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">____________________________</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Vera White, <i>The
Ink, Moscow-Pullman Daily News</i></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">....</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size: 9pt;"></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">The INKster had never heard of Pastor Mark
Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle until the
outraged postings started appearing on Vision2020
this week. What stirred up such solid citizens as
Saundra Lund of Moscow is</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">Nazarene Church Pastor Ed Eby's willingness
to rent his Church for an appearance by Driscoll.</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">"I cannot imagine that the community will
be overly impressed that the Nazarene Church has
rented itself out for a 'sexinar,' " Lund
concluded.</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">In Eby's defense, he rented out his church
to Doug Wilson and Christ Church elders, sponsors
of Driscoll's appearance next month at a
conference titled "The Grace Agenda: All of Christ
for All of Life for All The World."</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">Driscoll has a blog on which in 2008 he
answered such questions as: Can I perform anal sex
on my wife? Can we use sex toys? My wife likes to
masturbate me upon occasion and wants to know how
to get better at it. What should she do?</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">The INKster tried for two days to reach
Wilson for comment, but was told he was busy with
back-to-back meetings. She did however talk to
Assistant Pastor Mike Lawyer Friday who explained
the conference might attract "people from all over
the world" and the agenda would include a
Minister's Conference for men titled "The Puritan
Five," and for females a session called "Dangerous
Women."</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">How well does Lawyer know Driscoll?</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">"I've read some of his recent stuff,"
Lawyer said. "We feel his stuff is appropriate and
like him as far as we know. We respect him and his
ministry."</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">The INKster tried to reach Eby but ended up
talking to temporary church secretary Mary Jane
Bauer.</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">"Pastor Eby doesn¹t want to talk about
Driscoll right now as he says he is still
researching the matter," said Bauer, who has been
a member of the church for 30 years. "I've never
heard of Driscoll, but we rent out the church to
many different groups.²</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">After the INKster explained a bit about
Driscoll's style, Bauer said she "highly doubts
she will be attending."</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt;
margin-right: 3.75pt;"
class="yiv1737482642MsoNormal"><span
style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(244, 244, 244); color: black; font-size:
11pt;">...the blotter rests.</span></div>
</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">______________________</font><font
face="Verdana" size="2">_</font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="2">Wayne A. Fox<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mailto:wayne.a.fox@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:wayne.a.fox@gmail.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:wayne.a.fox@gmail.com">wayne.a.fox@gmail.com</a><br>
</font></div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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