[Vision2020] Ten Commandments?

[Wayne Price]

Well, to jump in on the side of the "trouble makers", my background is  
Jesuit Catholic, and I was taught that it is: "Thou shalt not murder",  
which as Bob D. pointed out is far far different than
thou shalt not kill.

A good place to start is this passage from the Sacred Book of Wikipedia:

"Multiple translations exist of the fifth/sixth commandment; the  
Hebrew words לא תרצח are variously translated as "thou shalt not  
kill" or "thou shalt not murder," though recent research suggests that  
neither one is accurate, as noted immediately below. Older Protestant  
translations of the Bible, those based on the Vulgate and Roman  
Catholic translations usually render it as "Thou shalt not kill,"  
whereas Jewish and newer Protestant versions tend to use "You shall  
not murder." There is controversy as to which translation is more  
faithful, and both forms are quoted in support of many opposing  
ethical standpoints.
The Vulgate (Latin) translation has Non occides, i.e. "Thou shalt not  
kill." English translations using "kill" include the King James  
(Authorised) (1611) [although note Matthew19:18 "do not murder,"  
following the Vulgate non homicidium facies], the American Standard  
(1901) and Revised Standard (American Protestant, 1952) Versions.  
Almost all Roman Catholic translations, including the Douay-Rheims  
Bible (1609/1752), the New American Bible (1970), the New Jerusalem  
Bible (1985) and the Christian Community Bible(1986), have "kill."  
Martin Luther (German, 1534) also uses töten (kill).
Protestant translations using "murder" include the New International  
Version (American, 1978), New American Standard Bible (American,  
1971), New English Bible (British Protestant, 1970), and the New King  
James (American, 1982), New Revised Standard (American, 1989) and  
English Standard (American Protestant, 2001) Versions. Jewish  
translations almost all use "murder," including the Jewish Publication  
Society of America Version (1917), the Judaica Press tanach (1963) and  
the Living Torah (1981). A Jewish exception to this pattern is the  
Artscroll or Stone Edition tanach (1996).
The Old Testament's examples of killings sanctioned by God are often  
cited in defense of the view that "murder" is a more accurate  
translation. Additionally, Hebrew has other words for "kill,"  
including הרג (harag) and המית (heimit), while רצח (ratzach),  
which is found in the Ten Commandments לא תרצח (lo tirtzach), was  
more specific. Joel M. Hoffman concludes that "kill" is too broad but  
"murder" is too narrow to reflect tirtsah. "












On Oct 24, 2010, at 5:02 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:

> I was going to ask the same thing as Bob, aka the "troublemaker."
> Similar questions about "Thou shalt not lie." Is "lie" the right
> translation or does it cover deception, too? Also, is it the case that
> the first 4 are often combined into 2? And do different denominations
> have different lists? And is it OK to covet my neighbor's car? I live
> next to Tom Lamar and he just has a Subaru. But once I lived next to a
> guy with a Mustang! Now I'm sounding like a troublemaker!
>
> All kidding aside, it isn't the "fundamentalists" that follow the ten
> commandments that bother me so much. It's the one's who don't follow
> them yet try to make it seem as if "Thou shalt not be gay," etc. are
> on the list when it isn't. Like the guy who says his name is "Glenn
> Schwaller" when it isn't and likes to lecture folks on their morals.
> Holy crap!
>
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Robert Dickow <dickow at turbonet.com>  
> wrote:
>> It is interesting to me that the wording of my equivalent of the "g"
>> commandment that I learned was 'Thou shall not kill', not 'Thou  
>> shall not
>> murder.'. The choice of translation here to 'murder' could make for  
>> an
>> allowance that makes it perfectly ok to kill people--in war let's  
>> say. Maybe
>> 'murder' is a more accurate translation in fact, since it is a  
>> little more
>> specific. After all, it has been quite acceptable to kill in self- 
>> defense,
>> and that can be carried to national scope too. Any scholarly  
>> comments out
>> there on the word choice?
>>
>> Bob Dickow, troublemaker
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Ralph Nielsen
>> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 10:28 AM
>> To: vision 2020
>> Subject: [Vision2020] Ten Commandments?
>>
>>
>>        THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
>>
>> Here are the Ten Commandments issued by Yahweh (the LORD) God on
>> Mount Sinai. Test your knowledge by numbering them from 1 to 10 in
>> the spaces provided.
>> <snip>...
>>
>> __ g. You shall not murder
>>
>> ...<snip>
>>
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