[Vision2020] Curiosity Question

[Joe Campbell]

Has the topic of NSA's recent threatening remarks been discussed on
the V? It was just mentioned the other day! The stuff about Bouma's
church just came out recently and in my mind was not discussed enough,
given that he refused to address this issue.

I'm happy for you that the fact that at least two radical rightwing
churches, ones who continually disrespect and even threaten people who
have alternative world views, exist in Moscow; that one of them ran a
candidate for political office, hoping to extend their narrow, bigoted
views. And if you don't want to talk about it, fine. Don't. But I do
want to talk about it. It does interest me.

I consider myself to be a secularist and I'm offended by NSA's NEW
threatening remarks. This is not OLD news. Again, I'm certain it would
interest you if the threatening remarks were made toward Christians. I
would think you'd find it to be a good subject for public discussion.
And if those comments were made toward Christians by some other group,
guess what? I'd say something about it then, too. Likewise if they
were made about Muslims and Mormons. But I'm not just interested in
providing Christians with the freedom to exercise their religious
beliefs. I'm interested in providing that freedom to everyone.

I'll stop talking about Christ Church and now Freeze Church when they
stop insulting and threatening folks with differing world views and
not until then. So save your breath!

On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe:
> I merely pointed out that this topic has been well discussed on this list.
>  In fact, I think most of the key players on this listservs positions are
> well known.  There isn't much more to be gained by bringing up the topic
> again and having everybody reiterate the same points they've been making for
> almost ten years. Surely there are other topics of interest to discuss in
> the community.
> More below:
> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> More to gain? There was a candidate for state election from one of these
>> bigoted churches. The local Republican party seems to think this doesn't
>> matter. Why is that not a cause for concern?
>
> I was concerned at the time.  But he was soundly defeated.  Our system at
> work.  Messy but effective.  The Rep.s' ran someone they thought would win,
> and the public let its will be known.  If they think a person with such
> views is a good candidate to endorse, that is their right.  It is others
> right not to vote for them, and to organize against them. I certainly
> exercised my rights in the matter, and encouraged others to do the same.
>  I'll note the election is now over.
>>
>> Do we actually have to elect the bigots to office before we should care?
>
> Of course not.  Do we need to endlessly discuss the same issue over and over
> again to show we care?
>
>>
>> Or is it just that they don't say things about your religion? As long as
>> they berate the Mirmons and the Muslims it is OK?
>
> As long as there are different Holy Books, or even different people reading
> the same Holy Books there will be people berating others for their beliefs.
>  Every church I've seen has followers that berate others beliefs.   But,
> most members of different religions choose to follow their beliefs, and let
> others follow theirs.  "To each his own," seems to be the general attitude,
> and is mine-so long as they don't impede the rights of others in the
> practicing of their religion.  Have the local churches impeded anyones
> rights?  Or have they simply exercised their own?  Rights are an interesting
> thing.  Everyone wants to defend their own.  Yet many get angry when others
> choose to exercise theirs.
>>
>> I can understand why you might not want to speak out.
>
> Actually, I am known in my family as the one most likely to speak out.
> Locally I I choose to speak out via actions more than words.  I've spoken
> out about the economy and local politics via my tenure with the Chamber of
> Commerce (paid a high price for that one), against homelessness and hunger
> with my work for Sojourners' Alliance, in favor of volunteerism with my
> leadership of the defunct Latah Community Volunteer Center, and in favor of
> youth via my work with the Boy Scouts and Latah Community Youth Advocacy
> Council, and my work against drug and alcohol abuse.  I try to do my share,
> thank you.  Please don't doubt my decisions to speak out, simply because
> they are in areas where you are not active.
>
>>
>> I just wish you'd refrain from criticizing those who do.
>
>
> Please point out where I said these local churches and the beliefs they
> espouse were not a cause for concern, and/or criticized anyone in my initial
> message.  Betcha can't.
>