[Vision2020] Pres mans-up, Crabtree doesn't

Fri Nov 5 07:55:10 PDT 2010

I disagree with Gary Crabtree on virtually everything, including, I guess, what color the sky is today.  I also frequently find him abrasive and cutting.

I'm sure others also find me frequently abrasive and cutting.  Further, while I think Gary did Shirley a disservice, I am willing to suppose that he simply blew it -- as I have more than once on this forum.  

But Gary is not a bad man, he doesn't hold Douglas Wilson to be an idol of any sort, and, while he dislikes what he sees as persnickety liberals and sanctimonious whiners, and while I most definitely disagree with him on who he thinks ought to wear that label, Gary's views about guns and Idaho should not make him a pariah.  Yeah, he occasionally wields the lance rather than the lantern, which is something we have in common.  It may be the only thing we have in common, but I have dealt with Gary personally and have found him to be a decent man.  He also is one of only a couple of conservative voices on Vision; let's not shout him out, let's not pamper him, let's challenge him honestly, and let's presume, as I know to be true, that my disagreements and occasional vexation at Gary don't make him evil personified -- or even a real louse.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

From: deco at moscow.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:13:24 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up, Crabtree doesn't

Does that reasonable time to respond extend to years?  
Crabtree frequently ignores the hard questions.  

Several years ago when Crabtree first appeared on V 2020, I 
tried to engage him in a dialogue on free enterprise.  I wrote a longer 
note covering several points.  His response was terse indicating that I 
couldn't summarize his philosophy in a few words.  He did not respond to 
any of the issues I raised.

This is not infrequent behavior.

Just last week in the discussion about Representative Shirley 
Ringo and the NRA, Crabtree asserted:

"My point is why would be want to 
send to Boise someone whose views differed so jarringly with those of the 
majority of the districts residents and who would be so totally out of step with 
Idaho's sporting heritage?"

I stated in answer to his assertions:

"There are many issues at stake in this (and 
generally in most elections).  Perhaps a candidate's position 
on weapon control/laws is a litmus test for some part of the electorate; it 
appears to be to so for Gary.  Others may have  different litmus 
tests, but hopefully most voters will base their decision after learning a 
candidate's position a wide variety of issues.

Further, not all sportspersons/hunters/etc are 
completely in accord with the extreme positions of the NRA.  Some oppose 
allowing the use of automatic or even semi-automatic weapons for hunting 
purposes.  Some even oppose the possession of such weapons for any purposes 
except by law enforcement officers and military personnel.  Among 
sportspersons and all the rest of Idaho citizens there is a great diversity of 
views on weapon control/laws and weapon possession, and there is a great 
diversity of views on the relative importance of that issue for a state 
legislator."

It would be hard to deny the reality or relevance of my 
comments to the issue.  Not only did Crabtree not respond to them, but 
continued to assert the same as before in a subsequent V 2020 post about 
Ringo.

Crabtree has learned well from his idol, Cultmaster Douglas 
Wilson:  If you can't make a rational response without either looking 
stupid or in error, ignore the question/issue.

I leave to readers to judge the courage and integrity of 
such tactics.

Wayne A. Fox
1009 Karen Lane
PO Box 9421
Moscow, ID  
83843

waf at moscow.com
208 
882-7975

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Paul 
  Rumelhart 
  To: Art Deco 
  Cc: Vision 2020 
  Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:29 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up, 
  Crabtree doesn't

His last post was like 6:30 or something.  The guy 
  does have a day job.  
Maybe we should give him reasonable time to 
  respond before we all assume 
he can't answer the 
  question?

Paul

Art Deco wrote:
> Aside from the fact that 
  Gary is shrewd enough not to respond to 
> questions whose answers might 
  make him look either ridiculous or 
> inconsistent with some of his 
  other utterances, maybe we should give 
> him a break and charitably 
  assume that Keystone (The Official Beer of 
> Litterers) makes it hard 
  at certain times for him to chew and digest 
> more than a tiny bit at a 
  helping.
>  
> w.
>
>     
  ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Garrett 
  Clevenger <mailto:garrettmc at frontier.com>
>     
  *To:* vision2020_moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>     
  *Sent:* Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:05 AM
>     
  *Subject:* [Vision2020] Pres mans-up, Crabtree 
  doesn't
>
>     Joe, don't expect Mr. Crabtree 
  to answer your questions.
>
>     He's good at 
  ranting, but horrible at giving reasonable answers 
  to
>     
  questions.
>
>     He bashed Ringo over her 
  gun stance, yet when asked:
>
>     "Should it 
  be open-ended where anybody is allowed to bear 
  (hold
>     and use) any arm (weapon) at anyplace 
  for any reason, or should
>     there be regulations 
  to insure others' rights are not 
  infringed?"
>
>     There is utter 
  silence.
>
>     That's not the first time he 
  refuses to answer questions, so I've
>     come to 
  expect that from him.
>
>     
  gclev
>
>     
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