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I disagree with Gary Crabtree on virtually everything, including, I guess, what color the sky is today. I also frequently find him abrasive and cutting.<br><br>I'm sure others also find me frequently abrasive and cutting. Further, while I think Gary did Shirley a disservice, I am willing to suppose that he simply blew it -- as I have more than once on this forum. <br><br>But Gary is not a bad man, he doesn't hold Douglas Wilson to be an idol of any sort, and, while he dislikes what he sees as persnickety liberals and sanctimonious whiners, and while I most definitely disagree with him on who he thinks ought to wear that label, Gary's views about guns and Idaho should not make him a pariah. Yeah, he occasionally wields the lance rather than the lantern, which is something we have in common. It may be the only thing we have in common, but I have dealt with Gary personally and have found him to be a decent man. He also is one of only a couple of conservative voices on Vision; let's not shout him out, let's not pamper him, let's challenge him honestly, and let's presume, as I know to be true, that my disagreements and occasional vexation at Gary don't make him evil personified -- or even a real louse.<br><br><font style="" color="#8064a2"><font style="font-size: 12pt;" size="3"><font style="" face="Verdana">Keely<br>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com<br></font></font></font><br><br><br><br><hr id="stopSpelling">From: deco@moscow.com<br>To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:13:24 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up, Crabtree doesn't<br><br>
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<div><font size="2">Does that reasonable time to respond extend to years?
Crabtree frequently ignores the hard questions. </font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">Several years ago when Crabtree first appeared on V 2020, I
tried to engage him in a dialogue on free enterprise. I wrote a longer
note covering several points. His response was terse indicating that I
couldn't summarize his philosophy in a few words. He did not respond to
any of the issues I raised.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">This is not infrequent behavior.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">Just last week in the discussion about Representative Shirley
Ringo and the NRA, Crabtree asserted:</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">
<div><font face="Calibri"><font color="#0000ff">"My point is why would be want to
send to Boise someone whose views differed so jarringly with those of the
majority of the districts residents and who would be so totally out of step with
Idaho's sporting heritage</font>?"</font></div></font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">I stated in answer to his assertions:</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">
<div><font color="#0000ff" size="2">"There are many issues at stake in this (and
generally in most elections). Perhaps a candidate's position
on weapon control/laws is a litmus test for some part of the electorate; it
appears to be to so for Gary. Others may have different litmus
tests, but hopefully most voters will base their decision after learning a
candidate's position a wide variety of issues.</font></div>
<div><font color="#0000ff" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font color="#0000ff" size="2">Further, not all sportspersons/hunters/etc are
completely in accord with the extreme positions of the NRA. Some oppose
allowing the use of automatic or even semi-automatic weapons for hunting
purposes. Some even oppose the possession of such weapons for any purposes
except by law enforcement officers and military personnel. Among
sportspersons and all the rest of Idaho citizens there is a great diversity of
views on weapon control/laws and weapon possession, and there is a great
diversity of views on the relative importance of that issue for a state
legislator."</font></div></font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">It would be hard to deny the reality or relevance of my
comments to the issue. Not only did Crabtree not respond to them, but
continued to assert the same as before in a subsequent V 2020 post about
Ringo.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">Crabtree has learned well from his idol, Cultmaster Douglas
Wilson: If you can't make a rational response without either looking
stupid or in error, ignore the question/issue.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">I leave to readers to judge the courage and integrity of
such tactics.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div><font size="2">
</font><div><font size="2"><br>Wayne A. Fox<br>1009 Karen Lane<br>PO Box 9421<br>Moscow, ID
83843</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2"><a href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</a><br>208
882-7975<br></font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b>From:</b>
<a title="godshatter@yahoo.com" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a title="deco@moscow.com" href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:29
AM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up,
Crabtree doesn't</div>
<div><br></div><br>His last post was like 6:30 or something. The guy
does have a day job. <br>Maybe we should give him reasonable time to
respond before we all assume <br>he can't answer the
question?<br><br>Paul<br><br>Art Deco wrote:<br>> Aside from the fact that
Gary is shrewd enough not to respond to <br>> questions whose answers might
make him look either ridiculous or <br>> inconsistent with some of his
other utterances, maybe we should give <br>> him a break and charitably
assume that Keystone (The Official Beer of <br>> Litterers) makes it hard
at certain times for him to chew and digest <br>> more than a tiny bit at a
helping.<br>> <br>> w.<br>><br>>
----- Original Message -----<br>> *From:* Garrett
Clevenger <<a href="mailto:garrettmc@frontier.com">mailto:garrettmc@frontier.com</a>><br>>
*To:* vision2020_moscow.com <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>>
*Sent:* Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:05 AM<br>>
*Subject:* [Vision2020] Pres mans-up, Crabtree
doesn't<br>><br>> Joe, don't expect Mr. Crabtree
to answer your questions.<br>><br>> He's good at
ranting, but horrible at giving reasonable answers
to<br>>
questions.<br>><br>> He bashed Ringo over her
gun stance, yet when asked:<br>><br>> "Should it
be open-ended where anybody is allowed to bear
(hold<br>> and use) any arm (weapon) at anyplace
for any reason, or should<br>> there be regulations
to insure others' rights are not
infringed?"<br>><br>> There is utter
silence.<br>><br>> That's not the first time he
refuses to answer questions, so I've<br>> come to
expect that from him.<br>><br>>
gclev<br>><br>>
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