[Vision2020] Latah County Needs to Follow the Rest of Idaho

Thu Nov 4 11:41:20 PDT 2010

 "We are not lemmings in lock-step with ultra-rightwing,
self-appointed idols." Tom Hansen 10/04/10

You are correct, Tom.
You are cattle in lock-step with ultra-left wing self-appointed idols.

Either way, there's plenty of bullshit to go around.

> From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 53, Issue 50
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 09:52:59 -0700
> 
> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> vision2020-request at moscow.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> vision2020-owner at moscow.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Pres mans-up (Tom Hansen)
> 2. Pres mans-up, Crabtree doesn't (Garrett Clevenger)
> 3. Re: Pres mans-up (Art Deco)
> 4. Latah County Needs to Follow the Rest of Idaho [not my title]
> (Tom Hansen)
> 5. Re: Pres mans-up, Crabtree doesn't (Art Deco)
> 6. Onward Christian Soldiers: Christian Supremacists in the U.S.
> Military (nickgier at roadrunner.com)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 08:47:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up
> To: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <929fb010cd5d47e155e70413c31e8e6f.squirrel at secure.fsr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> OK . . .
> 
> Now, Mr. Crabtree.
> 
> Mr. Campbell is available after November 15th.
> 
> What does your schedule look like?
> 
> We can handle this like a forum . . . an outdoorsy, one-on-one,
> down-and-dirty at the Square forum.
> 
> You and Mr. Campbell select (and agree to) one, two, or three topics.
> 
> People on the Viz will submit questions, concerning these topics, to be
> asked of both of you at the forum.
> 
> How about it?
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> On Thu, November 4, 2010 8:40 am, Joe Campbell wrote:
> > It will have to be after Nov. 15 for me. Joe
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> >> OK, guys, here's the deal . . .
> >>
> >> A debate between Joe Campbell and Gary Crabtree . . . Friendship Square
> >> .
> >> . . Saturday afternoon . . .
> >>
> >> How about it?
> >>
> >> The "Campbell/Crabtree Debate (The Saga Continues)"
> >>
> >> Tom Hansen
> >> Moscow, Idaho
> >>
> >> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> >> change
> >> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> >>
> >> - Unknown
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> 
> - Unknown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 16:05:02 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at frontier.com>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up, Crabtree doesn't
> To: "vision2020_moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID:
> <1374127449.801209.1288886702175.JavaMail.root at cl03-host04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Joe, don't expect Mr. Crabtree to answer your questions.
> 
> He's good at ranting, but horrible at giving reasonable answers to questions.
> 
> He bashed Ringo over her gun stance, yet when asked:
> 
> "Should it be open-ended where anybody is allowed to bear (hold and use) any arm (weapon) at anyplace for any reason, or should there be regulations to insure others' rights are not infringed?"
> 
> There is utter silence.
> 
> That's not the first time he refuses to answer questions, so I've come to expect that from him.
> 
> gclev
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 09:43:21 -0700
> From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up
> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <086227207BA74E959BA9940F8625A36B at LocalHost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Let's make the debate even more interesting: Let's include Glenn Schwaller and Rob Waters, who would surely show up to defend their strongly held opinions (else we would conclude that both are masquerading liberals trying to make conservatives look like confused cows in a maze.
> 
> w.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Tom Hansen 
> To: Joe Campbell 
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up
> 
> 
> OK, guys, here's the deal . . .
> 
> A debate between Joe Campbell and Gary Crabtree . . . Friendship Square .
> . . Saturday afternoon . . .
> 
> How about it?
> 
> The "Campbell/Crabtree Debate (The Saga Continues)"
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> 
> - Unknown
> 
> 
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> http://www.fsr.net 
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20101104/166e754a/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 09:43:21 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Latah County Needs to Follow the Rest of Idaho
> [not my title]
> To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <003a9216adeb62f819f1d04745254a09.squirrel at secure.fsr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Courtesy of the Letters section of today's (November 4, 2010)
> Moscow-Pullman Daily News with dubious recognition to Randall Driskell.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Latah County Needs to Follow the Rest of Idaho
> 
> Hey Latah County, the rest of us in the state decided to "wait a Minnick
> and move on to Labrador." Is that "ocean of red" surrounding Latah County
> slowing you down? Take a hint.
> 
> Randall Driskell
> Moscow
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Note for Randall Driskell . . .
> 
> Moscow may be the shining blue star in the red sky of Idaho. Most of us
> here in Latah County reflect a strong sense of independence and we are
> proud of that fact. We are not lemmings in lock-step with ultra-rightwing,
> self-appointed idols.
> 
> We care for Moscow and Latah County. Simply because something is popular
> does not make it right. Most of us in Latah County tend to browse the
> entire menu before we put our money on the table.
> 
> We don't fall in line with the crowd simply because it's trendy.
> 
> I'll admit one thing, Mr. Driskall. Some people need a crowd to show them
> "the way".
> 
> Where would you be, Mr. Driskell, without that crowd (forced to consider
> and decide on your own)?
> 
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> 
> - Unknown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 09:50:28 -0700
> From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up, Crabtree doesn't
> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <49E888E0E5834FA8BBA67A4AC38BBE02 at LocalHost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Aside from the fact that Gary is shrewd enough not to respond to questions whose answers might make him look either ridiculous or inconsistent with some of his other utterances, maybe we should give him a break and charitably assume that Keystone (The Official Beer of Litterers) makes it hard at certain times for him to chew and digest more than a tiny bit at a helping.
> 
> w.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Garrett Clevenger 
> To: vision2020_moscow.com 
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:05 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up, Crabtree doesn't
> 
> 
> Joe, don't expect Mr. Crabtree to answer your questions.
> 
> He's good at ranting, but horrible at giving reasonable answers to questions.
> 
> He bashed Ringo over her gun stance, yet when asked:
> 
> "Should it be open-ended where anybody is allowed to bear (hold and use) any arm (weapon) at anyplace for any reason, or should there be regulations to insure others' rights are not infringed?"
> 
> There is utter silence.
> 
> That's not the first time he refuses to answer questions, so I've come to expect that from him.
> 
> gclev
> 
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> http://www.fsr.net 
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20101104/713a98ac/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 12:52:57 -0400
> From: <nickgier at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Onward Christian Soldiers: Christian
> Supremacists in the U.S. Military
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <20101104165257.E5VED.54825.root at cdptpa-web28-z01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Good Morning Visionaries:
> 
> This is my radio commentary/column for this week. The full version with one outrage after another is attached.
> 
> As we prepare to honor our veterans on Nov. 11, let us remember that one of the freedoms that some have given their lives for is the freedom of religion. This is a comprehensive right that includes the freedom to have an unconventional religion or no religion at all. As Thomas Jefferson wrote in Notes on Virginia: ?It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.? 
> 
> My next column is on women in the military and then there might be a third about military suicides and poor veterans care.
> 
> Thank you Tom and all other veterans on the Viz. for your service,
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS: CHRISTIAN SUPREMACISTS IN THE U.S. MILITARY
> 
> Sometime in 2008 while serving in Afghanistan Sgt. Jon Watt received a shipment of bibles from his home church. They were obviously not meant for personal use, because they were in the Dari and Pastho language. They had no purpose other than to be distributed among Muslim Afghanis.
> 
> Documented on video by filmmaker Brian Hughes, Watt admitted that he had given away bibles while on a previous tour in Iraq. "I bought a carpet and then I gave the guy a bible after I conducted my business. The expressions that I got from the people in Iraq were just phenomenal. They were hungry for The Word." 
> 
> Central Command General Order No. 1 explicitly states that ?proselytizing of any faith, religion or practice? is strictly forbidden. In the video Sgt. Watt acknowledges the order but he defends his actions by saying that he was only giving the bibles as gifts. 
> Every year the Gideons give out free New Testaments on our campuses, and Sgt. Watt is evangelizing just as much they are. He freely admits that the Iraqis were ?hungry for The Word.? Not only was Watt violating military code, he was also confirming many Muslims? worst fears that the U.S. is involved in a world-wide crusade against Muslims. 
> 
> Gen. Cecil R. Richardson, the Air Force deputy chief of chaplains, believes that there is a distinction between proselytizing and evangelizing. As he states: "We will not proselytize, but we reserve the right to evangelize the unchurched." 
> In an interview with Richardson Laurie Goodstein of the New York Times (7-12-05) learned that proselytizing is ?trying to convert someone in an aggressive way, while evangelizing is more gently sharing the gospel.? 
> 
> One might argue that is a very fine line to draw. At church summer camp I felt coerced even by the soft sell that was offered. There are no conflicting freedoms here. A soldier?s right not to be pressed on religious matters always overrides any chaplain?s right to evangelize.
> 
> The issue of evangelical Christians subverting military policy about proselytizing and respecting religious freedom came to light most dramatically at the Air Force Academy in 2005. A Washington Post (5-13-05) story reported that some cadets complained about ?insults aimed at Jews, Roman Catholics and non-evangelical cadets,? and reported a chaplain who declared that any cadet not born again would "burn in the fires of hell."
> 
> The Air Force Academy asked a delegation from Yale Divinity School to investigate these complaints, as well as charges of sexual assaults against female cadets. Yale Prof. Kristen Leslie summarized their findings: "What we found was this very strong evangelical Christian voice dominating. We thought that just didn't make sense in light of their mission, which was to protect and train cadets, not to win religious converts." The most egregious violation of religious neutrality was the "Team Jesus" banner hanging in the locker room of the Academy?s football team.
> 
> Chief chaplain Col. Michael Whittington was not happy with the Yale report, but Melinda Morton, a Lutheran minister and executive officer of the chaplain unit, agreed with the criticisms: ?The evangelicals want to subvert the system. They have a very clear social and political agenda.? Whittington removed her from her position and arranged for her to be transferred to Okinawa.
> 
> In a June 2005 appearance before the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, Lt. Gen. John Rosa, Commander of the Air Force Academy, admitted that there had been problems with proselytizing and religious intolerance at his institution. He told author Jeff Sharlet that ?restoring constitutional principles to the academy would take at least six years.? 
> 
> When Sharlet interviewed Rosa?s successor Lt. Gen. John Regni in 2008, he asked him about First Amendment protections of religious freedom. Sharlet was amazed at the non-answer he received: ?Regni consulted with two of his advisers, a colonel and a retired colonel, said they weren't quite familiar with those constitutional things, and ultimately decided to pass on the question.?
> 
> A Mormon (who prefers to remain anonymous) left the Marine Corps in the late 1990s primarily because he was tired of his faith being described as ?wicked? and ?Satanic.? He received these slurs even from his commanding officers. He has now returned to military service and is training to become a chaplain so that he can minister to soldiers who feel that their religious beliefs are not being respected.
> 
> The principal task of a military chaplain is to provide pastoral care to service men and women of all faiths. If ministers want to evangelize, they should be called by a church, become a missionary, or get their own TV show.
> 
> Nick Gier taught religion and philosophy at the University of Idaho for 31 years.
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: MiliaryReligion.pdf
> Type: application/pdf
> Size: 38793 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20101104/3f98a07a/attachment.pdf 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> http://www.fsr.net 
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> 
> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 53, Issue 50
> ******************************************

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20101104/02a5fbaf/attachment-0001.html 