[Vision2020] Pres mans-up

Thu Nov 4 06:18:53 PDT 2010

I don't know a thing about "facebook." It must be quite something to be the equivalent of ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, FOX, CNN, NPR, etc.

Many Jews think Catholics are up start, Johnny come latelys and are in doctrinal error, Many Catholics feel the same about Protestants, Many Protestants feel the same about the LDS etc. etc. etc. It is the story of religion in the world that congregations, churches, sects, whatever feel that they are on the true path and that others have yet to see the light. That Mr. Bouma's Pastor felt that way isn't some sort of major news story, it was a branch with which to beat a candidate with which a group didn't agree.

For another Pastor to make comments stating that the country the candidate was seeking to lead deserved what happened on 11 September, that God should damn that same country, and that that county had concocted dread diseases and inflicted them on the world, that is a completely different thing as I suspect you are well aware.

I see that the old Joe has returned, I also think that most folks on this forum see the inevitable conclusion of that home coming. Please take the last word, I don't want to subject the rest of the gang to what is sure to follow. I'm done.

g

From: Joe Campbell 
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 4:41 AM
To: Gary Crabtree 
Cc: keely emerinemix ; <vpschwaller at gmail.com> ; <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up

Ike "I Hate Democrats" Young's dad, as could be seen on his Facebook page. I noticed it here on the V when Tom posted a link during the short-lived (and nit really ever fully substantiated) "flyer-gate" scandal.

Now that I have your attention, I've been wanting to ask you, why did you change your tune this election from two years ago? Recall two years ago when No Weatherman was posting by the hour his interesting (though racist) inquiries concerning Obama's religious views, etc. especially whether he was a Muslim. Why were those questions fair, a view you offered time and time again, yet questions about Bouma's religion somehow off bounds? Or at any rate, why weren't the right's of people to ask those questions defended with the same zeal that you, Roger, and other local Republicans defended No Weatherman's? 

Is it that first amendment speech rights apply to Republicans during election years but not to Democrats? That first amendment rights of religious expression have a hidden footnote suggesting it really only applies to Christians yet not Muslims or Mormons? Is it that only the second amendment is absolute and that the first can be ignored by local Republicans when the see fit? Or is it that as a matter of personal taste you enjoyed reading the racist rants of No Weatherman more than honest questions and concerns about whether a local candidate for state office held offensive views toward Mormons?

On Nov 4, 2010, at 2:18 AM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:

  The father of a local Republican candidate vs. The President. You're right, strikes me as being about equal in throw weight. I'm guessing that this local father, who ever it is you're talking about, was receiving major media coverage on an hour by hour basis. Perhaps you'd care to provide a cite to the radio, television, or newspaper coverage of local daddy's daily disparagement?

  g

  From: Joe Campbell 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:13 PM
  To: Gary Crabtree 
  Cc: keely emerinemix ; <vpschwaller at gmail.com> ; <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up

  You write: "Your paragon of masculine virtue had absolutely no need to even acknowledge their presence other than to taunt them as the source of all ills ..."

  For crying out loud, local Republicans ran a candidate whose father called Democrats "communists" on a daily basis and neither you nor any of your friends said a damn thing. I cannot imagine a Democrat getting away with that crap. So please save your lectures about intolerance and hostility among progressives. Obama will do more with Republican leadership than your stonewalling Republican leadership ever did with him. 

  On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:47 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:

    Reading a little much into a subject line aren’t we?

    I'm a little curious as to how daunting you imagine  "facing down an unremittingly hostile GOP in his first half-term." is likely to have been. Your paragon of masculine virtue had absolutely no need to even acknowledge their presence other than to taunt them as the source of all ills,  castigate them as "enemies" and consign them to "the back of the bus." The cold hard facts of the matter are that the president had a veto proof, filibuster proof majority and could do as he pleased without so much as a Republican by your leave. The only disappointments to be suffered were at the hands of other democrats.

    g

    From: keely emerinemix 
    Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 6:47 PM
    To: vpschwaller at gmail.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up

    Gee, Glenndale, with talk of the President's "manning up," you sound as rough and tumble as Christine O'Donnell, Sarah Palin, and Sharron Angle.  I  suppose that makes you da man . . . or da men.  Good for you.

    It looks like you're interpreting the Huffington Post article as an introduction to Obama 2.0, Manlier Version (Chest Hair Sold Separately).  I guess, then, that I'd be correct in concluding that you think that some sort of cowardice, softness, and limp-wristedness is behind Obama's difficulties over the past two years.  Care to confirm, with examples?  Because I think a lot of us who have had our disappointments with him haven't really ever given due consideration to any lack of bravery or toughness on his part.  I know you know a lot about bravery and toughness, so I'm hoping you can shed some light on this for us.  I know you wouldn't hold a guy's intellect, education, or bearing against him -- you've probably met a few manly Classicists in your life -- so I'm really interested in hearing how he hasn't "manned up" while facing down an unremittingly hostile GOP in his first half-term.

    It's true that Barack Obama doesn't taunt our enemies on a destroyer in wartime while wearing a crotch-enhancing flightsuit, but I just guess I always assumed he was "man enough" for the job.  Since I know we can agree that people who hide behind pseudonyms or anonymity aren't terribly gutsy, I await your analysis.

    Keely
    www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

    > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:57:58 -0700
    > From: vpschwaller at gmail.com
    > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
    > Subject: [Vision2020] Pres mans-up
    > 
    > >From the Huffington Post:
    > 
    > A chastened President Barack Obama signaled a willingness to
    > compromise with Republicans on tax cuts and energy policy Wednesday,
    > one day after his party lost control of the House and suffered deep
    > Senate losses in midterm elections.
    > 
    > Obama ruefully called the Republican victories "a shellacking" and
    > acknowledged that his own connection with the public had frayed.
    > 
    > At a White House news conference, the president said that when
    > Congress returns, "my goal is to make sure we don't have a huge spike
    > in taxes for middle class families." He made no mention of his
    > campaign-long insistence that tax cuts be permitted to expire on
    > upper-income families, a position he said would avoid swelling the
    > deficit but put him in conflict with Republicans.
    > 
    > He also virtually abandoned his legislation – hopelessly stalled in
    > the Senate – featuring economic incentives to reduce carbon emissions
    > from power plants, vehicles and other sources.
    > 
    > "I'm going to be looking for other means of addressing this problem,"
    > he said. "Cap and trade was just one way of skinning the cat," he
    > said, strongly implying there will be others.
    > 
    > In the campaign, Republicans slammed the bill as a "national energy
    > tax" and jobs killer, and numerous Democrats sought to emphasize their
    > opposition to the measure during their own re-election races.
    > 
    > The president opened his post-election news conference by saying
    > voters who felt frustrated by the sluggish pace of economic recovery
    > had dictated the Republican takeover in the House.
    > 
    > Asked to reflect on the returns, he said, "I feel bad," adding that
    > many Democrats who went down to defeat had done so knowing they risked
    > their careers to support his agenda of economic stimulus legislation
    > and a landmark health care bill. He blamed himself, in part.
    > 
    > "The relationship that I've had with the American people is one that
    > built slowly, peaked at this incredible high, and then during the
    > course of the last two years, as we've together gone through some very
    > difficult times, has gotten rockier and tougher," Obama said.
    > 
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