[Vision2020] 2010 Census
Art Deco
deco at moscow.com
Fri Jan 22 13:29:18 PST 2010
Here's the problem:
Some of us on the mountain have security devices intended to detect trespassers, and the after dark measures designed to discourage them may be quite draconian. Because of certain incidents, anyone trespassing in our neighborhood after dark is not likely to appreciate the attention they will receive from many of my neighbors.
I will be glad to do my census duty, and I am not anti-federal government, I just do not want to have trespassers, and then have to deal with the consequences. Let the census taker (or anyone else) call for permission first, and then set a time for a visit.
Not all Boundary County residents (or former residents) or even most are rightwing psychopaths. But we do believe in privacy and the right to secure our homes from unwanted threats and pests. I lived one mile from the Canadian border as a child. We, and almost all our neighbors, fired at border jumpers trying to steal vehicles, etc on more than one occasion.
W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Hansen
To: Ron Force
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 2010 Census
I'd rather be a pop-up target on a rifle range than a census taker (or
ANYBODY, for that matter, with ties to the government) in Boundary County.
Does the phrase "Randy Weaver - Ruby Ridge - August 1992" ring any bells?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
Remember that FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints) compound
in Texas that drew national attention concerning the children on that
compound.
Well, there is a splinter group of the FLDS organized right ther outside
of Naples, Idaho.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/39696072.html
Any V-peeps interested in going door-to-door in Boundary County for the
census? I'm sure there are a few vacancies.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
> Google "census takers trespass" for an eyefull-there's some real nutters
> out there. I'd think twice about signing up to be a "gum'ent snooper".
> The Boundary County Commissioners discussed this, here's their minutes:
>
>
> Commissioners
> discussed census
> takers and the issue of trespassing. Boundary County has received one
> complaint
> on the issue of census takers and trespassing. Attorney Robinson said
> Bonner
> County has had numerous complaints on this topic. Bonner County's
> Sheriff and
> Board of Commissioners initially said if the property owners had "no
> trespassing" signs, the Sheriff could have had those visitors cited and
> Attorney
> Robinson said you can't do that as there is a federal statute that
> people shall
> cooperate with census workers. The Census Act doesn't say that people
> have the
> right to trespass. Attorney Robinson said he conducted some research and
> there
> are two cases in Idaho and he sent the information to Prosecutor Jack
> Douglas.
> Attorney Robinson said there is no trespass even if there is a "no
> trespassing"
> sign when you approach a person's place, whether it is a respectful
> visitor or
> someone with other legitimate purposes. These are legitimate approaches
> by such
> people as mail carriers, newspapers carriers, census workers, utility
> workers,
> and neighbors or friends. If someone comes to the driveway of a house
> just as a
> friend would, by law that is not a trespass. Attorney Robinson said he
> has heard
> stories of people jumping over fences, checking out outbuildings, etc.
> Commissioner Dinning questioned if a census taker comes to his house and
> knocks
> on his door and he tells them to go away yet they continue to stay, is
> that a
> violation. It was said that people are getting upset about the census
> GIS
> workers. It was said that these workers are pre-census workers. Attorney
> Robinson said if someone says to go away they may be violating the
> federal
> statute as it says you will cooperate. Attorney Robinson informed Chief
> Deputy
> Prosecutor Sarah Jane Hallock that he sent Prosecutor Douglas some Idaho
> cases.
> Attorney Robinson relayed the case numbers to her. Attorney Robinson
> said one of
> the cases includes the language and the various people that someone
> could
> anticipate coming onto properties. Having a GIS reader shouldn't make a
> difference. These census takers have no business running through
> someone's back
> field or buildings, but they can approach the house. Commissioner
> Dinning said
> since the census is next year, how can this be a census worker. Attorney
> Robinson said these people are census workers and his office has checked
> on
> that. They are clearly there on behalf of the census takers, according
> to
> Attorney Robinson.
>
> Ron Force
> Moscow ID USA
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Kenneth Marcy <kmmos1 at verizon.net>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Fri, January 22, 2010 11:00:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 2010 Census
>
> On Friday 22 January 2010 09:42:17 Art Deco wrote:
>> press.docOur property is posted to keep out a number of pests
>> including hunters, salespeople, missionaries, religious
>> psychopaths, criminals, nosey parkers/porkers, etc.
>>
>> Can a criminal trespass action be brought against census takers who
>> violate the trespassing laws?
>
> I suppose some windmill-tilting lawyer could file such a case, but I
> would not hold much hope for it going very far. Remember that the
> authority for the federal census specified in the US constitution,
> and there are additional federal statutes requiring citizens to
> participate in the census. So a trespassing case against a census
> worker carrying out census taking duties would seem to have a low
> probability of success given the strong federal mandate for the
> census.
>
> On the other hand, if the federal administrative rules under which the
> census is conducted extend guidelines to census workers about which
> practical situations may be excused from that particular census
> worker's visit, that's another matter. In other words, if the feds
> say "We won't push this particular case," that's OK, because it's the
> fed's initiative. But if some citizen decides the feds don't need to
> count anyone at that residence, and the feds do want to count in that
> residence, then the citizen is at a considerable disadvantage.
>
> It may be that there are some citizens who might need, in fact, might
> foolishly prefer, that the individual civilian census worker driving
> a hybrid be replaced by a fully-armored Humvee with half a dozen
> fully-armed special forces personnel, just to get the point across
> that the census data will be collected, whether or not the citizen
> happens to be having a bad-hair day. Fortunately for all of us, there
> are statistically more accurate census estimating techniques that do
> not require such military participation in census-taking, or give the
> opportunity for foolish bravado given such stronger data requests.
>
>
> Ken
>
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