[Vision2020] Purpose of Postings

Wed Dec 22 11:13:14 PST 2010

I think Joe was referring to me, when he said someone jumped all over her. I also respect Keely and what I said was intended as a complement. Joe misinterpreted my comment.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "the lockshop" lockshop at pull.twcbc.com
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 09:26:28 -0800
To: "Joe Campbell" philosopher.joe at gmail.com, "Dan Carscallen" areaman at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Purpose of Postings

> "Keely and Crabtree got into a tussle
> recently and he dragged her all through the mud. A woman. In public.
> Then she lost it and made some insulting comment (which struck me as
> not too bad, by the way) and someone jumped all over her."
> 
> Looking back through my sent items file, I see no mud dragging and most assuredly see no insult that Ms. Mix might have sent my way. We disagree on many, maybe most, topics but I hold her in high regard. Any remarks I make during one of our discussions are not intended as insult and I surely take none of hers personally either. Trying to turn spirited disagreement into some form of animosity is one of the "turn offs" that you mentioned.
> 
> g
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> To: "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com>
> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Purpose of Postings
> 
> 
> I'll say it again: If you were having a conversation and someone
> interrupted with another, completely different conversation, you would
> take that as being rude. Am I wrong? And I took the trouble to qualify
> the comment, on several occasions, with words like "seems" and to
> stress, more than once, that I was just looking for an explanation.
> Not sure how I could have been clearer. An explanation was given and
> I'm fine with it. End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> I just wonder why it is that a whole bunch of conservative folks can
> get away with a whole bunch of actual rude behavior without anyone
> saying anything but folks jump on me on a regular basis. Now I'm not
> at all suggesting that I don't deserve it. Sometimes I do. But if you
> look carefully at my last few posts there hasn't really been a lot of
> rude things that I've said. Just asked some (admittedly loaded)
> questions, that's all. Not violent rhetoric, by any means.
> 
> I find it interesting that conservatives can get away with a whole lot
> of crap that liberals cannot. Keely and Crabtree got into a tussle
> recently and he dragged her all through the mud. A woman. In public.
> Then she lost it and made some insulting comment (which struck me as
> not too bad, by the way) and someone jumped all over her. I can only
> imagine what kind of whip would come down were WSU or UI to post on
> the front page of their website the progressive version of the NSA
> advertisement. There are other examples.
> 
> Part of my participation on the V all these years has been a kind of
> experiment, to try to act like Crabtree, Wilson, etc. and dish it out.
> Be direct, maybe insulting but don't back down. But the fact is, they
> get away with it. Not from Tom, etc. but from you and other more
> moderates in town, as well as many of the liberals/progressives. Their
> dish-it-out rhetoric works, it is attractive to other conservatives
> and moderates. But when liberals like myself use that same rhetorical
> style it is (in general) a turnoff. I find that interesting. Part of
> my participation is an attempt to understand this; part of it is
> because I'm a bit of jackass, no doubt.
> 
> And I'm not making any other point than that. It is interesting that
> certain rhetorical styles work for certain political groups and not
> others. I didn't mean to suggest there was something to it, some
> comment toward you. You are a perfectly reasonable, moderate youngish
> man. The fact is lots of reasonable moderates are turned off by
> aggressive progressives. I just find that interesting, that's all.
> Because in the end, it is ALL just words. Nothing more.
> 
> Best, Joe
> 
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
> > I don't recall the NSA posting anything here on the vizzz, and perhaps me calling you rude was a little harsh. I will commend your pitbull-like tenacity, though.
> >
> > Perhaps I haven't criticized any alleged conservatives on the vizzz, but I think everyone else does a good enough job on the three of them.
> >
> > And for some reason you like to throw that label on me. I think some of my "conservative" acquaintances might disagree, although compared to most on the vizzz I probably seem to fall somewhere to the right of the Archduke Ferdinand.
> >
> > Anyhow, I guess I just felt you were looking for something that wasn't there in Jeff's posts, I think I know me well enough to think I'd do the same for you if I thought someone was doing the same with you.
> >
> > And that last sentence is terrible, bit it gets my point across. Hopefully Mrs Hovey doesn't ding me too hard.
> >
> > Your pal
> >
> > DC
> >
> > On Dec 21, 2010, at 19:42, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I said it seemed rude. I didn't say it was rude. I'm just asking for
> >> an explanation.
> >>
> >> I find it interesting that you think I'm rude for asking questions but
> >> that NSA post is not rude for its violent rhetoric, insulting a bunch
> >> of folks who actually voted for you, including myself. In fact, though
> >> you have no problem criticizing me in public, I've never seen you say
> >> a single untoward thing toward any conservative. Doesn't matter what
> >> they do. That is pretty interesting, isn't it?
> >>
> >> It seems that if Jeff wanted to start a new post about values,
> >> something I very much approve of, by the way, he could have done it in
> >> some other way. I'm just trying to find out why he did it this way.
> >> That is a reasonable question by any standard, especially standards on
> >> the V which seem to think that the defense of slavery is a reasonable
> >> position.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
> >>> Joe,
> >>>
> >>> I think you're reading way too much into it. I'm pretty sure the vizzz is capable of more than one conversation at a time.
> >>>
> >>> It is, after all, the Christmas season (or whatever you choose to celebrate this time of year) and that's usually when folks will throw out some sort of inspirational stuff.
> >>>
> >>> Besides, you didn't get all over Tom for his "caturday" post, or admonish Deb and Wayne for their jabs at ITD.
> >>>
> >>> I don't want to cast aspersions, but your accusation that Jeff was being rude is, well, rude.
> >>>
> >>> Your pal
> >>>
> >>> DC
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 21, 2010, at 19:08, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> OK but could you just explain to me why you posted this in the middle
> >>>> of a discussion on freedom of expression? After all, the title of your
> >>>> initial post was "Values to Live By Freedom of expression" which is
> >>>> odd to say the least, if not rude. Either you just cut off a
> >>>> conversation or your post had something to do with Freedom of
> >>>> expression or something else, I know not what. I'm just trying to find
> >>>> out.
> >>>>
> >>>> What was it about the discussion that led to this abrupt change of
> >>>> topic? What was it about sportsmanship, or values in general, that led
> >>>> to the post? On the face of it, it is a little like interrupting
> >>>> someone in the middle of a conversation with a quite different topic.
> >>>> Seems to me it would be considered rude by most standards.
> >>>>
> >>>> Now maybe you have an explanation but to pretend that it does not seem
> >>>> odd or rude is just bizarre and not indicative of any of the values
> >>>> that you have posted about so far. I think an explanation is in order,
> >>>> maybe an apology. You make it seem as if I'm being untoward when all
> >>>> I'm doing is asking for an explanation of your odd and/or rude
> >>>> behavior.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Verbatim - here is the posting I made for the first installment.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My curiosity about the recent plethora of media spots, billboards and ads by
> >>>>> the Foundation for a Better Life led me to their website at www.values.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Their premise is that the values we live by are worth more when we "Pass
> >>>>> Them On".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Their view is that .. "everyone views the world through a unique lens" and a
> >>>>> Foundation objective "... is to provide a wide spectrum of values that are
> >>>>> universal, encouraging and inspiring."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They state that "(B)ecause values are worth more when we pass them on, The
> >>>>> Foundation for a Better Life chose these values to share with you... Pass It
> >>>>> On"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, for the next several weeks, I will post one of their values and leave it
> >>>>> to you to ponder, post and/or pass it on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do encourage you all to visit their website - most inspiring.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> End of first post - additional thoughts below. Visit the website
> >>>>> www.values.com. Peruse ... and you will find:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Values. No matter where we live, we live by values. Because they are worth
> >>>>> more when we pass them on, The Foundation For a Better Life chose these
> >>>>> values to share. Explore each value or suggest your own.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Foundation for a Better Life began as a simple idea to promote positive
> >>>>> values. We believe that people are basically good and just need a reminder.
> >>>>> And that the values we live by are worth more when we pass them on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Throughout this site, you can pass things on to your friends, family or
> >>>>> co-workers—anyone who might enjoy our site.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We want the stories we share about the positive actions and values of others
> >>>>> to serve as inspiration for someone to do one thing a little better, and
> >>>>> then pass on that inspiration. A few individuals living values-based lives
> >>>>> will collectively make the world a better place.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Therein lies my motivation - self examination (one value at a time) and
> >>>>> sharing. Ah, the time you ask? Well, retirement affords one the time to do
> >>>>> many things to which I am grateful.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Happy Holiday Season
> >>>>>
> >>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> =======================================================
> >
> 
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet, 
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
>                http://www.fsr.net                       
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3330 - Release Date: 12/21/10 11:34:00
> 
>