[Vision2020] Purpose of Postings

Wed Dec 22 11:38:09 PST 2010

I'm sorry Roger. What DID you mean? I just reported the quote recently, so it's easy enough to find. Joe

On Dec 22, 2010, at 11:13 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

> I think Joe was referring to me, when he said someone jumped all over her. I also respect Keely and what I said was intended as a complement. Joe misinterpreted my comment.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: "the lockshop" lockshop at pull.twcbc.com
> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 09:26:28 -0800
> To: "Joe Campbell" philosopher.joe at gmail.com, "Dan Carscallen" areaman at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Purpose of Postings
> 
>> "Keely and Crabtree got into a tussle
>> recently and he dragged her all through the mud. A woman. In public.
>> Then she lost it and made some insulting comment (which struck me as
>> not too bad, by the way) and someone jumped all over her."
>> 
>> Looking back through my sent items file, I see no mud dragging and most assuredly see no insult that Ms. Mix might have sent my way. We disagree on many, maybe most, topics but I hold her in high regard. Any remarks I make during one of our discussions are not intended as insult and I surely take none of hers personally either. Trying to turn spirited disagreement into some form of animosity is one of the "turn offs" that you mentioned.
>> 
>> g
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> To: "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com>
>> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Purpose of Postings
>> 
>> 
>> I'll say it again: If you were having a conversation and someone
>> interrupted with another, completely different conversation, you would
>> take that as being rude. Am I wrong? And I took the trouble to qualify
>> the comment, on several occasions, with words like "seems" and to
>> stress, more than once, that I was just looking for an explanation.
>> Not sure how I could have been clearer. An explanation was given and
>> I'm fine with it. End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.
>> 
>> I just wonder why it is that a whole bunch of conservative folks can
>> get away with a whole bunch of actual rude behavior without anyone
>> saying anything but folks jump on me on a regular basis. Now I'm not
>> at all suggesting that I don't deserve it. Sometimes I do. But if you
>> look carefully at my last few posts there hasn't really been a lot of
>> rude things that I've said. Just asked some (admittedly loaded)
>> questions, that's all. Not violent rhetoric, by any means.
>> 
>> I find it interesting that conservatives can get away with a whole lot
>> of crap that liberals cannot. Keely and Crabtree got into a tussle
>> recently and he dragged her all through the mud. A woman. In public.
>> Then she lost it and made some insulting comment (which struck me as
>> not too bad, by the way) and someone jumped all over her. I can only
>> imagine what kind of whip would come down were WSU or UI to post on
>> the front page of their website the progressive version of the NSA
>> advertisement. There are other examples.
>> 
>> Part of my participation on the V all these years has been a kind of
>> experiment, to try to act like Crabtree, Wilson, etc. and dish it out.
>> Be direct, maybe insulting but don't back down. But the fact is, they
>> get away with it. Not from Tom, etc. but from you and other more
>> moderates in town, as well as many of the liberals/progressives. Their
>> dish-it-out rhetoric works, it is attractive to other conservatives
>> and moderates. But when liberals like myself use that same rhetorical
>> style it is (in general) a turnoff. I find that interesting. Part of
>> my participation is an attempt to understand this; part of it is
>> because I'm a bit of jackass, no doubt.
>> 
>> And I'm not making any other point than that. It is interesting that
>> certain rhetorical styles work for certain political groups and not
>> others. I didn't mean to suggest there was something to it, some
>> comment toward you. You are a perfectly reasonable, moderate youngish
>> man. The fact is lots of reasonable moderates are turned off by
>> aggressive progressives. I just find that interesting, that's all.
>> Because in the end, it is ALL just words. Nothing more.
>> 
>> Best, Joe
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
>>> I don't recall the NSA posting anything here on the vizzz, and perhaps me calling you rude was a little harsh. I will commend your pitbull-like tenacity, though.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps I haven't criticized any alleged conservatives on the vizzz, but I think everyone else does a good enough job on the three of them.
>>> 
>>> And for some reason you like to throw that label on me. I think some of my "conservative" acquaintances might disagree, although compared to most on the vizzz I probably seem to fall somewhere to the right of the Archduke Ferdinand.
>>> 
>>> Anyhow, I guess I just felt you were looking for something that wasn't there in Jeff's posts, I think I know me well enough to think I'd do the same for you if I thought someone was doing the same with you.
>>> 
>>> And that last sentence is terrible, bit it gets my point across. Hopefully Mrs Hovey doesn't ding me too hard.
>>> 
>>> Your pal
>>> 
>>> DC
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2010, at 19:42, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I said it seemed rude. I didn't say it was rude. I'm just asking for
>>>> an explanation.
>>>> 
>>>> I find it interesting that you think I'm rude for asking questions but
>>>> that NSA post is not rude for its violent rhetoric, insulting a bunch
>>>> of folks who actually voted for you, including myself. In fact, though
>>>> you have no problem criticizing me in public, I've never seen you say
>>>> a single untoward thing toward any conservative. Doesn't matter what
>>>> they do. That is pretty interesting, isn't it?
>>>> 
>>>> It seems that if Jeff wanted to start a new post about values,
>>>> something I very much approve of, by the way, he could have done it in
>>>> some other way. I'm just trying to find out why he did it this way.
>>>> That is a reasonable question by any standard, especially standards on
>>>> the V which seem to think that the defense of slavery is a reasonable
>>>> position.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joe,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think you're reading way too much into it. I'm pretty sure the vizzz is capable of more than one conversation at a time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is, after all, the Christmas season (or whatever you choose to celebrate this time of year) and that's usually when folks will throw out some sort of inspirational stuff.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Besides, you didn't get all over Tom for his "caturday" post, or admonish Deb and Wayne for their jabs at ITD.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't want to cast aspersions, but your accusation that Jeff was being rude is, well, rude.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your pal
>>>>> 
>>>>> DC
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 21, 2010, at 19:08, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> OK but could you just explain to me why you posted this in the middle
>>>>>> of a discussion on freedom of expression? After all, the title of your
>>>>>> initial post was "Values to Live By Freedom of expression" which is
>>>>>> odd to say the least, if not rude. Either you just cut off a
>>>>>> conversation or your post had something to do with Freedom of
>>>>>> expression or something else, I know not what. I'm just trying to find
>>>>>> out.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What was it about the discussion that led to this abrupt change of
>>>>>> topic? What was it about sportsmanship, or values in general, that led
>>>>>> to the post? On the face of it, it is a little like interrupting
>>>>>> someone in the middle of a conversation with a quite different topic.
>>>>>> Seems to me it would be considered rude by most standards.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now maybe you have an explanation but to pretend that it does not seem
>>>>>> odd or rude is just bizarre and not indicative of any of the values
>>>>>> that you have posted about so far. I think an explanation is in order,
>>>>>> maybe an apology. You make it seem as if I'm being untoward when all
>>>>>> I'm doing is asking for an explanation of your odd and/or rude
>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Verbatim - here is the posting I made for the first installment.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My curiosity about the recent plethora of media spots, billboards and ads by
>>>>>>> the Foundation for a Better Life led me to their website at www.values.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Their premise is that the values we live by are worth more when we "Pass
>>>>>>> Them On".
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Their view is that .. "everyone views the world through a unique lens" and a
>>>>>>> Foundation objective "... is to provide a wide spectrum of values that are
>>>>>>> universal, encouraging and inspiring."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> They state that "(B)ecause values are worth more when we pass them on, The
>>>>>>> Foundation for a Better Life chose these values to share with you... Pass It
>>>>>>> On"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So, for the next several weeks, I will post one of their values and leave it
>>>>>>> to you to ponder, post and/or pass it on.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I do encourage you all to visit their website - most inspiring.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> End of first post - additional thoughts below. Visit the website
>>>>>>> www.values.com. Peruse ... and you will find:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Values. No matter where we live, we live by values. Because they are worth
>>>>>>> more when we pass them on, The Foundation For a Better Life chose these
>>>>>>> values to share. Explore each value or suggest your own.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Foundation for a Better Life began as a simple idea to promote positive
>>>>>>> values. We believe that people are basically good and just need a reminder.
>>>>>>> And that the values we live by are worth more when we pass them on.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Throughout this site, you can pass things on to your friends, family or
>>>>>>> co-workers—anyone who might enjoy our site.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We want the stories we share about the positive actions and values of others
>>>>>>> to serve as inspiration for someone to do one thing a little better, and
>>>>>>> then pass on that inspiration. A few individuals living values-based lives
>>>>>>> will collectively make the world a better place.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Therein lies my motivation - self examination (one value at a time) and
>>>>>>> sharing. Ah, the time you ask? Well, retirement affords one the time to do
>>>>>>> many things to which I am grateful.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Happy Holiday Season
>>>>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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