[Vision2020] Purpose of Postings

Wed Dec 22 08:26:28 PST 2010

"Keely and Crabtree got into a tussle
recently and he dragged her all through the mud. A woman. In public.
Then she lost it and made some insulting comment (which struck me as
not too bad, by the way) and someone jumped all over her."

Looking back through my sent items file, I see no mud dragging and most assuredly see no insult that Ms. Mix might have sent my way. We disagree on many, maybe most, topics but I hold her in high regard. Any remarks I make during one of our discussions are not intended as insult and I surely take none of hers personally either. Trying to turn spirited disagreement into some form of animosity is one of the "turn offs" that you mentioned.

g
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
To: "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com>
Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Purpose of Postings

I'll say it again: If you were having a conversation and someone
interrupted with another, completely different conversation, you would
take that as being rude. Am I wrong? And I took the trouble to qualify
the comment, on several occasions, with words like "seems" and to
stress, more than once, that I was just looking for an explanation.
Not sure how I could have been clearer. An explanation was given and
I'm fine with it. End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

I just wonder why it is that a whole bunch of conservative folks can
get away with a whole bunch of actual rude behavior without anyone
saying anything but folks jump on me on a regular basis. Now I'm not
at all suggesting that I don't deserve it. Sometimes I do. But if you
look carefully at my last few posts there hasn't really been a lot of
rude things that I've said. Just asked some (admittedly loaded)
questions, that's all. Not violent rhetoric, by any means.

I find it interesting that conservatives can get away with a whole lot
of crap that liberals cannot. Keely and Crabtree got into a tussle
recently and he dragged her all through the mud. A woman. In public.
Then she lost it and made some insulting comment (which struck me as
not too bad, by the way) and someone jumped all over her. I can only
imagine what kind of whip would come down were WSU or UI to post on
the front page of their website the progressive version of the NSA
advertisement. There are other examples.

Part of my participation on the V all these years has been a kind of
experiment, to try to act like Crabtree, Wilson, etc. and dish it out.
Be direct, maybe insulting but don't back down. But the fact is, they
get away with it. Not from Tom, etc. but from you and other more
moderates in town, as well as many of the liberals/progressives. Their
dish-it-out rhetoric works, it is attractive to other conservatives
and moderates. But when liberals like myself use that same rhetorical
style it is (in general) a turnoff. I find that interesting. Part of
my participation is an attempt to understand this; part of it is
because I'm a bit of jackass, no doubt.

And I'm not making any other point than that. It is interesting that
certain rhetorical styles work for certain political groups and not
others. I didn't mean to suggest there was something to it, some
comment toward you. You are a perfectly reasonable, moderate youngish
man. The fact is lots of reasonable moderates are turned off by
aggressive progressives. I just find that interesting, that's all.
Because in the end, it is ALL just words. Nothing more.

Best, Joe

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
> I don't recall the NSA posting anything here on the vizzz, and perhaps me calling you rude was a little harsh. I will commend your pitbull-like tenacity, though.
>
> Perhaps I haven't criticized any alleged conservatives on the vizzz, but I think everyone else does a good enough job on the three of them.
>
> And for some reason you like to throw that label on me. I think some of my "conservative" acquaintances might disagree, although compared to most on the vizzz I probably seem to fall somewhere to the right of the Archduke Ferdinand.
>
> Anyhow, I guess I just felt you were looking for something that wasn't there in Jeff's posts, I think I know me well enough to think I'd do the same for you if I thought someone was doing the same with you.
>
> And that last sentence is terrible, bit it gets my point across. Hopefully Mrs Hovey doesn't ding me too hard.
>
> Your pal
>
> DC
>
> On Dec 21, 2010, at 19:42, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I said it seemed rude. I didn't say it was rude. I'm just asking for
>> an explanation.
>>
>> I find it interesting that you think I'm rude for asking questions but
>> that NSA post is not rude for its violent rhetoric, insulting a bunch
>> of folks who actually voted for you, including myself. In fact, though
>> you have no problem criticizing me in public, I've never seen you say
>> a single untoward thing toward any conservative. Doesn't matter what
>> they do. That is pretty interesting, isn't it?
>>
>> It seems that if Jeff wanted to start a new post about values,
>> something I very much approve of, by the way, he could have done it in
>> some other way. I'm just trying to find out why he did it this way.
>> That is a reasonable question by any standard, especially standards on
>> the V which seem to think that the defense of slavery is a reasonable
>> position.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> I think you're reading way too much into it. I'm pretty sure the vizzz is capable of more than one conversation at a time.
>>>
>>> It is, after all, the Christmas season (or whatever you choose to celebrate this time of year) and that's usually when folks will throw out some sort of inspirational stuff.
>>>
>>> Besides, you didn't get all over Tom for his "caturday" post, or admonish Deb and Wayne for their jabs at ITD.
>>>
>>> I don't want to cast aspersions, but your accusation that Jeff was being rude is, well, rude.
>>>
>>> Your pal
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2010, at 19:08, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK but could you just explain to me why you posted this in the middle
>>>> of a discussion on freedom of expression? After all, the title of your
>>>> initial post was "Values to Live By Freedom of expression" which is
>>>> odd to say the least, if not rude. Either you just cut off a
>>>> conversation or your post had something to do with Freedom of
>>>> expression or something else, I know not what. I'm just trying to find
>>>> out.
>>>>
>>>> What was it about the discussion that led to this abrupt change of
>>>> topic? What was it about sportsmanship, or values in general, that led
>>>> to the post? On the face of it, it is a little like interrupting
>>>> someone in the middle of a conversation with a quite different topic.
>>>> Seems to me it would be considered rude by most standards.
>>>>
>>>> Now maybe you have an explanation but to pretend that it does not seem
>>>> odd or rude is just bizarre and not indicative of any of the values
>>>> that you have posted about so far. I think an explanation is in order,
>>>> maybe an apology. You make it seem as if I'm being untoward when all
>>>> I'm doing is asking for an explanation of your odd and/or rude
>>>> behavior.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>> Verbatim - here is the posting I made for the first installment.
>>>>>
>>>>> My curiosity about the recent plethora of media spots, billboards and ads by
>>>>> the Foundation for a Better Life led me to their website at www.values.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Their premise is that the values we live by are worth more when we "Pass
>>>>> Them On".
>>>>>
>>>>> Their view is that .. "everyone views the world through a unique lens" and a
>>>>> Foundation objective "... is to provide a wide spectrum of values that are
>>>>> universal, encouraging and inspiring."
>>>>>
>>>>> They state that "(B)ecause values are worth more when we pass them on, The
>>>>> Foundation for a Better Life chose these values to share with you... Pass It
>>>>> On"
>>>>>
>>>>> So, for the next several weeks, I will post one of their values and leave it
>>>>> to you to ponder, post and/or pass it on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do encourage you all to visit their website - most inspiring.
>>>>>
>>>>> End of first post - additional thoughts below. Visit the website
>>>>> www.values.com. Peruse ... and you will find:
>>>>>
>>>>> Values. No matter where we live, we live by values. Because they are worth
>>>>> more when we pass them on, The Foundation For a Better Life chose these
>>>>> values to share. Explore each value or suggest your own.
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> The Foundation for a Better Life began as a simple idea to promote positive
>>>>> values. We believe that people are basically good and just need a reminder.
>>>>> And that the values we live by are worth more when we pass them on.
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> Throughout this site, you can pass things on to your friends, family or
>>>>> co-workers—anyone who might enjoy our site.
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> We want the stories we share about the positive actions and values of others
>>>>> to serve as inspiration for someone to do one thing a little better, and
>>>>> then pass on that inspiration. A few individuals living values-based lives
>>>>> will collectively make the world a better place.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therein lies my motivation - self examination (one value at a time) and
>>>>> sharing. Ah, the time you ask? Well, retirement affords one the time to do
>>>>> many things to which I am grateful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy Holiday Season
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>

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