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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Keely and Crabtree got into a tussle<BR>recently
and he dragged her all through the mud. A woman. In public.<BR>Then she lost it
and made some insulting comment (which struck me as<BR>not too bad, by the way)
and someone jumped all over her."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Looking back through my sent items file, I see no
mud dragging and most assuredly see no insult that Ms. Mix might have sent my
way. We disagree on many, maybe most, topics but I hold her in high regard. Any
remarks I make during one of our discussions are not intended as
insult and I surely take none of hers personally either. Trying to turn spirited
disagreement into some form of animosity is one of the "turn offs" that you
mentioned.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Joe Campbell" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>philosopher.joe@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "Dan Carscallen" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>areaman@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Purpose of
Postings</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>I'll say it again: If you were having a conversation and
someone<BR>interrupted with another, completely different conversation, you
would<BR>take that as being rude. Am I wrong? And I took the trouble to
qualify<BR>the comment, on several occasions, with words like "seems" and
to<BR>stress, more than once, that I was just looking for an explanation.<BR>Not
sure how I could have been clearer. An explanation was given and<BR>I'm fine
with it. End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.<BR><BR>I just wonder why it
is that a whole bunch of conservative folks can<BR>get away with a whole bunch
of actual rude behavior without anyone<BR>saying anything but folks jump on me
on a regular basis. Now I'm not<BR>at all suggesting that I don't deserve it.
Sometimes I do. But if you<BR>look carefully at my last few posts there hasn't
really been a lot of<BR>rude things that I've said. Just asked some (admittedly
loaded)<BR>questions, that's all. Not violent rhetoric, by any means.<BR><BR>I
find it interesting that conservatives can get away with a whole lot<BR>of crap
that liberals cannot. Keely and Crabtree got into a tussle<BR>recently and he
dragged her all through the mud. A woman. In public.<BR>Then she lost it and
made some insulting comment (which struck me as<BR>not too bad, by the way) and
someone jumped all over her. I can only<BR>imagine what kind of whip would come
down were WSU or UI to post on<BR>the front page of their website the
progressive version of the NSA<BR>advertisement. There are other
examples.<BR><BR>Part of my participation on the V all these years has been a
kind of<BR>experiment, to try to act like Crabtree, Wilson, etc. and dish it
out.<BR>Be direct, maybe insulting but don't back down. But the fact is,
they<BR>get away with it. Not from Tom, etc. but from you and other
more<BR>moderates in town, as well as many of the liberals/progressives.
Their<BR>dish-it-out rhetoric works, it is attractive to other
conservatives<BR>and moderates. But when liberals like myself use that same
rhetorical<BR>style it is (in general) a turnoff. I find that interesting. Part
of<BR>my participation is an attempt to understand this; part of it
is<BR>because I'm a bit of jackass, no doubt.<BR><BR>And I'm not making any
other point than that. It is interesting that<BR>certain rhetorical styles work
for certain political groups and not<BR>others. I didn't mean to suggest there
was something to it, some<BR>comment toward you. You are a perfectly reasonable,
moderate youngish<BR>man. The fact is lots of reasonable moderates are turned
off by<BR>aggressive progressives. I just find that interesting, that's
all.<BR>Because in the end, it is ALL just words. Nothing more.<BR><BR>Best,
Joe<BR><BR>On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Dan Carscallen <</FONT><A
href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>areaman@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> wrote:<BR>>
I don't recall the NSA posting anything here on the vizzz, and perhaps me
calling you rude was a little harsh. I will commend your pitbull-like tenacity,
though.<BR>><BR>> Perhaps I haven't criticized any alleged conservatives
on the vizzz, but I think everyone else does a good enough job on the three of
them.<BR>><BR>> And for some reason you like to throw that label on me. I
think some of my "conservative" acquaintances might disagree, although compared
to most on the vizzz I probably seem to fall somewhere to the right of the
Archduke Ferdinand.<BR>><BR>> Anyhow, I guess I just felt you were looking
for something that wasn't there in Jeff's posts, I think I know me well enough
to think I'd do the same for you if I thought someone was doing the same with
you.<BR>><BR>> And that last sentence is terrible, bit it gets my point
across. Hopefully Mrs Hovey doesn't ding me too hard.<BR>><BR>> Your
pal<BR>><BR>> DC<BR>><BR>> On Dec 21, 2010, at 19:42, Joe Campbell
<</FONT><A href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>philosopher.joe@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>>> I said it seemed rude. I didn't say it was rude. I'm
just asking for<BR>>> an explanation.<BR>>><BR>>> I find it
interesting that you think I'm rude for asking questions but<BR>>> that
NSA post is not rude for its violent rhetoric, insulting a bunch<BR>>> of
folks who actually voted for you, including myself. In fact, though<BR>>>
you have no problem criticizing me in public, I've never seen you
say<BR>>> a single untoward thing toward any conservative. Doesn't matter
what<BR>>> they do. That is pretty interesting, isn't
it?<BR>>><BR>>> It seems that if Jeff wanted to start a new post
about values,<BR>>> something I very much approve of, by the way, he could
have done it in<BR>>> some other way. I'm just trying to find out why he
did it this way.<BR>>> That is a reasonable question by any standard,
especially standards on<BR>>> the V which seem to think that the defense
of slavery is a reasonable<BR>>> position.<BR>>><BR>>> On Tue,
Dec 21, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Dan Carscallen <</FONT><A
href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>areaman@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>>>> Joe,<BR>>>><BR>>>> I think you're
reading way too much into it. I'm pretty sure the vizzz is capable of more than
one conversation at a time.<BR>>>><BR>>>> It is, after all,
the Christmas season (or whatever you choose to celebrate this time of year) and
that's usually when folks will throw out some sort of inspirational
stuff.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Besides, you didn't get all over Tom for
his "caturday" post, or admonish Deb and Wayne for their jabs at
ITD.<BR>>>><BR>>>> I don't want to cast aspersions, but your
accusation that Jeff was being rude is, well,
rude.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Your pal<BR>>>><BR>>>>
DC<BR>>>><BR>>>> On Dec 21, 2010, at 19:08, Joe Campbell
<</FONT><A href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>philosopher.joe@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>>>><BR>>>>> OK but could you just explain to me
why you posted this in the middle<BR>>>>> of a discussion on freedom
of expression? After all, the title of your<BR>>>>> initial post was
"Values to Live By Freedom of expression" which is<BR>>>>> odd to
say the least, if not rude. Either you just cut off a<BR>>>>>
conversation or your post had something to do with Freedom
of<BR>>>>> expression or something else, I know not what. I'm just
trying to find<BR>>>>> out.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
What was it about the discussion that led to this abrupt change
of<BR>>>>> topic? What was it about sportsmanship, or values in
general, that led<BR>>>>> to the post? On the face of it, it is a
little like interrupting<BR>>>>> someone in the middle of a
conversation with a quite different topic.<BR>>>>> Seems to me it
would be considered rude by most
standards.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> Now maybe you have an
explanation but to pretend that it does not seem<BR>>>>> odd or rude
is just bizarre and not indicative of any of the values<BR>>>>> that
you have posted about so far. I think an explanation is in
order,<BR>>>>> maybe an apology. You make it seem as if I'm being
untoward when all<BR>>>>> I'm doing is asking for an explanation of
your odd and/or rude<BR>>>>>
behavior.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:22
PM, Jeff Harkins <</FONT><A href="mailto:jeffh@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jeffh@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>>>>>> Verbatim - here is the posting I made for the
first installment.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> My curiosity
about the recent plethora of media spots, billboards and ads
by<BR>>>>>> the Foundation for a Better Life led me to their
website at </FONT><A href="http://www.values.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>www.values.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Their premise is that the
values we live by are worth more when we "Pass<BR>>>>>> Them
On".<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Their view is that ..
"everyone views the world through a unique lens" and a<BR>>>>>>
Foundation objective "... is to provide a wide spectrum of values that
are<BR>>>>>> universal, encouraging and
inspiring."<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> They state that
"(B)ecause values are worth more when we pass them on,
The<BR>>>>>> Foundation for a Better Life chose these values to
share with you... Pass It<BR>>>>>>
On"<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> So, for the next several
weeks, I will post one of their values and leave it<BR>>>>>> to
you to ponder, post and/or pass it
on.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> I do encourage you all to
visit their website - most
inspiring.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> End of first post -
additional thoughts below. Visit the website<BR>>>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://www.values.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>www.values.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>. Peruse ... and you
will find:<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Values. No matter
where we live, we live by values. Because they are worth<BR>>>>>>
more when we pass them on, The Foundation For a Better Life chose
these<BR>>>>>> values to share. Explore each value or suggest
your own.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>>
and<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> The Foundation for a Better
Life began as a simple idea to promote positive<BR>>>>>> values.
We believe that people are basically good and just need a
reminder.<BR>>>>>> And that the values we live by are worth more
when we pass them on.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>>
and<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Throughout this site, you
can pass things on to your friends, family or<BR>>>>>>
co-workers—anyone who might enjoy our
site.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>>
and<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> We want the stories we share
about the positive actions and values of others<BR>>>>>> to serve
as inspiration for someone to do one thing a little better,
and<BR>>>>>> then pass on that inspiration. A few individuals
living values-based lives<BR>>>>>> will collectively make the
world a better place.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Therein
lies my motivation - self examination (one value at a time)
and<BR>>>>>> sharing. Ah, the time you ask? Well, retirement
affords one the time to do<BR>>>>>> many things to which I am
grateful.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> Happy Holiday
Season<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>>
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