[Vision2020] ''Oh what a tangled web we weave when firstwepractice to deceive''
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sun Dec 5 18:08:03 PST 2010
That kind of hard-hitting journalism is as dead as the dodo bird, except
for some exceptions such as Democracy Now. I don't know exactly how it
disappeared, but I've seen better research done on blogs by amateurs
than I have by the big papers recently. I applaud KRFP for bringing
those kinds of shows you listed below to the air.
As for whether anyone's been harmed by the leaks, you have to at least
acknowledge that the possibility for that kind of outcome exists.
That's why they put so much effort into redaction. So far, they seem to
have done a great job but eventually they'll miss some combination of
data that will allow someone bad to target someone innocent. It's just
a matter of time. I would say that they're still doing a net good even
if it happens, except that your point is well taken that nobody gives a
crap about it. As long as people have three square meals a day, a place
to live, access to Facebook and Dancing with the Stars, they don't care
what happens. It's sad, but true.
Paul
Dave wrote:
> I beg to disagree. You see, unlike the apathetic USofA, most people of
> the world get pretty bent out of joint when they find that they have
> been lied to by their leaders. The cables by themselves don't directly
> show the lies, they have to be compared to what various "leaders" said
> at the time. This kind of (tedious) journalism is not done very often
> by the mainstream even though they are in the best position to do so.
> Democracy Now! is the kind of outfit that will do their best to do what
> they can, check out all of last week's shows if you haven't, far cry
> from FAUX News coverage (or CNN for that matter, I do have to give a
> hat's off to the N.Y. Times, no delving, but at least "covering").
>
> Some other good shows that are likely to delve deeply are (forgive the
> cheep plug):
> Letters to Washington, weekdays @ 11AM on KRFP,
> Uprising, Sat. @ 8AM and Sun. @ 11AM (usually different shows) on KRFP,
> and Flashpoints, M-Th @ 6:30 PM & Sat @ 7 AM, on KRFP.
> I believe these are all also available on line, just search for them.
>
> And so far, the number of confirmed cases of anyone being harmed by the
> Iraq or Afghanistan document releases are zero, as far as I know.
> Although Sarah Palin and Joe Lieberman (ever notice how they are so
> alike?) would have you believe otherwise.
>
> Dave
>
> On 12/04/2010 05:05 PM, Paul Rumelhart wrote:
>
>> I doubt that anything in the current batch of diplomatic cables would
>> jeopardize anyone's life, but there was concern when 90,000 documents
>> covering the Afghanistan war were leaked. The Department of Defense
>> looked into it, though, and found that no sensitive intelligence sources
>> or methods were disclosed. Here is a story from CNN about it:
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/16/wikileaks.assessment/index.html?hpt=T2
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sue Hovey wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Does anyone know just what sort of info has been leaked that would
>>> seriously jeopardize someone's life? Personally, it's difficult for
>>> me to believe anyone would post an Internet message that would result
>>> in that sort of danger. If these are actual hard copy records, such
>>> as Ellsburg had access to with The Pentagon Papers then maybe; but in
>>> a historical retrospect Ellsburg's deed is now viewed as patriotic and
>>> important--it may well be that Assange's acts are really no different.
>>>
>>> Sue H.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rumelhart
>>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 10:37 PM
>>> To: lfalen
>>> Cc: vision2020 ; Dave
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] ''Oh what a tangled web we weave when
>>> firstwepractice to deceive''
>>>
>>> The private that leaked the information did break the law and deserves
>>> to be locked up for it. Julian Assange, rape charges aside, did nothing
>>> but post the material online. Think of him as a professional redacting
>>> service. I'm not even sure that what he did was illegal.
>>>
>>> I agree that information that could jeopardize national security (truly
>>> jeopardize it - not just have that used as a convenient excuse) should
>>> not be posted on Wikileaks. Assange and his group do try to redact that
>>> information from the documents before posting them. The documents
>>> related to Iraq were even sent to the government to have them redact
>>> them, but they refused to do so.
>>>
>>> Wikileaks has a certain legendary mystique status to it, but what they
>>> are doing is not much different than what the NY Times does when they
>>> publish the same info. What they've mainly done is scare the pants off
>>> of the US government. There's always been an avenue to publish this
>>> kind of stuff through the normal media, but they can be pressured into
>>> silence. See the first few years of the Iraq war for an example. The
>>> people behind Wikileaks don't look as thought they'll be so easily
>>> intimidated - they don't have a business to lose and they have an agenda
>>> that involves transparency. If you mention the word "transparency" in
>>> certain governmental circles right now, I bet people flinch.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> lfalen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I Don't think that there is a bigger advocate of transparency in
>>>> government than I am. With the help of Gary Schroeder and Tom Trial I
>>>> tried to get legislation passed to strengthen both the Open Meeting
>>>> Law and the Public records Law.I also had Gary introduce legislation
>>>> that would have required all public meetings to be taped and keep as
>>>> part of the public record for 7 years. But there is a limit as to
>>>> what should be made public. That limit is when it evolves National
>>>> Security. Some of what has been on wilileaks may be embarrassing but
>>>> does not jeopardize National Security. Other information does and
>>>> also may put the lives of those working in covert operations in
>>>> jeopardy . This information should not be leaked. Those that do so
>>>> should be prosecuted. The Pvt. that gave the information to
>>>> wikileaks is in jail and should stay there. Julian Assange is wanted
>>>> on rape charges in Sweden. He should answer those charges and be
>>>> extradited to the U.S. and charged with jeopardizing!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> National
>>>
>>>
>>>> Security. The U. S. government should also tighten up regulations on
>>>> who has access to sensitive data. This is not to say that secret
>>>> information should never be released. For historical purposes such
>>>> information could be released after a lengthy period of time, say 40
>>>> to 50 years.
>>>> Roger
>>>> -----Original message-----
>>>> From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
>>>> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 20:16:30 -0800
>>>> To: Dave tiedye at turbonet.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] ''Oh what a tangled web we weave when
>>>> firstwe practice to deceive''
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm a big fan of wikileaks and what they are trying to do.
>>>>> Transparency
>>>>> is sorely lacking in government today. I can see why those in power
>>>>> are
>>>>> running scared and spinning these leaks as the worst kind of terrorism.
>>>>>
>>>>> This latest leak of diplomatic documents may have the effect of causing
>>>>> those who write such documents not to give their honest assessments of
>>>>> situations for fear of them being leaked, though. I still say it's a
>>>>> small price to pay for bringing some long-needed accountability to
>>>>> government.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did like the comment one of Clinton's fellow counterparts told her (I
>>>>> don't remember who), "You should see what we say about you".
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know about you all, but being a news junkie I just love this
>>>>>> latest Wikileaks stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although, for a change, the official line that they "are putting
>>>>>> people in danger", is probably correct. I think a lot of leaders will
>>>>>> be "in danger" as the news about how they lied to their people
>>>>>> comes out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
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