[Vision2020] 'Obama Tags' Called a Joke

Tue Sep 1 19:11:00 PDT 2009

Gary,

Now I'm going to spend the rest of the night trying to blind my mind's  
eye from the vision of Joe shrieking like a stiffed strumpet!  *S*

Reminds me of the joke: "How do you make antifreeze? "   You hide her  
panties in the winter!

Wayne

On Sep 1, 2009, at 6:43 PM, g. crabtree wrote:

> Au contraire, mon pauvre con fraire! You are incorrect in multiple  
> (read all) instances.
>
> 1. Vague? Please allow me to quote verbatim "I will come to your  
> place of work and punch you right in the nose." Your notion of vague  
> is as sketchy as your self control. One can but wonder what you  
> might consider overt.
>
> 2. I reposted your silly, impotent threat directly to the V. Dale  
> picked it up from there. I am under zero obligation to keep  
> unsolicited junk e-mail private.
>
> 3. At no time did I assert that you had no right to make moronic  
> threats that you were incapable of carrying out. Should any of the  
> above be in doubt, refresh your failing memory at:
>
> [Vision2020] thin skinned?   g. crabtree Thu May 18 20:07:59 PDT 2006
>
> 4. Hypocrite? My reason for reposting your shining example of poor  
> impulse control was driven by the fact that just a few days prior  
> you had elected to edify our community with an editorial in the  
> local daily paper on your version of proper community dialog and  
> tolerance. When it comes to hypocrites of stature I would think you  
> might search a little closer to home.
>
> On a side note, why is it when this subject comes up via others you  
> shriek like a stiffed strumpet but when you imagine it works for  
> your weak to nonexistent argument you trot it out like a prized  
> pony. Hypocrite indeed!
>
> g
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Campbell
> To: g. crabtree
> Cc: Andreas Schou ; Moscow Vision 2020
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 'Obama Tags' Called a Joke
>
> You certainly cared when I made a vague threat to you a few years  
> back and you shipped a personal letter from me to you to you friend  
> Dale to post on his website. We didn't here much talk about free  
> speech then!
>
> I have to say, you are the biggest hypocrite and the most one sided  
> zealot I have ever met! Which is funny since you are constantly  
> accusing others of hypocracy.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 1, 2009, at 7:17 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> Truth be told, I don't much care about "vague threats" one way or  
>> the other. I believe in the first amendment protection of free  
>> speech even if it's distasteful or inflammatory to some. I don't  
>> believe that for one group it's "the highest form of patriotism"  
>> and for another it's "hate speech." Stupid and ill-considered  
>> remarks are an equal right not a "two wrongs don't make a right" as  
>> one of our more deranged posters has suggested.
>>
>> I am going to have to take your word for the beliefs of "AR-15  
>> toting dude"  and friends. As you probably know, I disagree with  
>> most of what you claim they profess. That said, I don't think that  
>> exercising a protected right qualifies as a vague threat. Arizona,  
>> along with Idaho are open carry states and as such what AR15td was  
>> doing was completely legal. If that makes someone "uncomfortable"  
>> or scared that is their right as well. Americans are entitled to  
>> their feelings. I find your attitude in this regard strange  
>> however. This (Idaho) being a concealed carry state as well as  
>> open, the number of firearms that surround you on a daily basis is  
>> rather large. Every major group you are among contains dozens of  
>> lethal pieces of hardware. Do you find this debilitating?
>>
>> So, your qualms in order. Where you feel "comfortable" is a purely  
>> personal concern. It is not the responsibility of others. Speaking  
>> strictly for myself, tie dye and the public display of hacky sacks  
>> makes me a little queasy but I suck it up and deal.
>>
>> Second and third, the waste of resources issue is a non-starter.  
>> The SS and law enforcement is there anyway and the way the  
>> government wastes resources, this doesn't even amount to a tiny  
>> portion of a drop in the bucket. If this is truly a concern for  
>> you, a better, easier, and cheaper solution would be for you to  
>> insist that the president stay in the whitehouse and try to  
>> accomplish something useful and stop with the 24/7/365 campaign for  
>> adulation.
>>
>>
>> Your fourth and final point I don't really understand. Are you  
>> suggesting that police and responsible firearms owners will  
>> suddenly become unhinged and commence with a recreation of the OK  
>> corral? That the guns will suddenly develop a mind of their own  
>> (shades of the dumbest of Steven King's pap) and turn on their  
>> owners? Or are you suggesting, as a great many of those with your  
>> "strong and contrary beliefs" do, that one group of peoples rights  
>> should be taken away to cover for some vague and unlikely  
>> possibility and to make another group a little more at ease?
>>
>> g
>> From: Andreas Schou
>> To: g. crabtree
>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 'Obama Tags' Called a Joke
>>
>> Gary --
>>
>> I'm just not sure on your position here. Do you think people should  
>> be making vague threats against the President or not? Or are you  
>> just accusing the liberals here of being hypocrites without taking  
>> a position yourself?
>>
>> Here's your way out. I'm a little confused as to why you didn't  
>> take it:
>>
>> These aren't my people; I'm not responsible for them. They're  
>> crazy; I'm not. The assault rifle guys are from the We The People  
>> Foundation, which is an advocacy organization for tax protesters.  
>> They're also birthers. They print their own money. They want to  
>> return to the gold standard. They believe the Venezuelan government  
>> stole the last US election by tampering with US voting machines.  
>> They bear little, if any, relationship to you -- by which I mean,  
>> "the near side of the far right." I find some of your beliefs  
>> distasteful; however, I find them comprehensible. Not so much with  
>> these lunatics.
>>
>> I also mentioned that I found the protester with the AR-15 a little  
>> scary.
>>
>> He showed up at a Presidential rally toting an assault rifle. His  
>> pastor's praying for Obama's death. He won't disavow an intent to  
>> kill the President while being interviewed on television,. His  
>> buddy showed up with a rifle and a threatening sign at the New  
>> Hampshire rally. There's a difference between a vague threat  
>> delivered by a puppet-wielding sociology undergrad across the  
>> country and a threat delivered by a militia gunman a block away.
>>
>> Neither, you might note, is likely to actually to kill the  
>> President. That's not, however, what I'm worried about. First, I  
>> have a lot of strong and contrary political beliefs. I'm  
>> uncomfortable expressing them with my back to military-grade  
>> firearms. I think this is reasonable. Second, an armed and licensed  
>> person a block away from the President is a waste of resources,  
>> given that it's probably a good idea to keep a Secret Service  
>> sniper on him at all times. Third, keeping a Secret Service sniper  
>> on fifty gun-toting militia members is a logistical nightmare, and  
>> there appears to be no good way to prevent fifty gun-toting idiots  
>> from showing up. Fourth, the introduction of firearms to a  
>> situation with a lot of shouting and pushing, threatening signs,  
>> twitchy cops, and security cordons is an awful idea. Someone will  
>> get hurt. It is unlikely to be Obama, but that doesn't mean I don't  
>> care.
>>
>> -- ACS
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 5:59 PM, g. crabtree  
>> <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> It seems to me that you and campbell are in a neck and neck  
>> competition to post the most addled response to my pointing out yet  
>> another spot of hypocrisy with regard to the Rammell quip.  
>> Fortunately for you, past experience indicates that the man with a  
>> fallacy for all seasons will always ultimately win out in  
>> competitions such as this. Just for fun however, why don't you  
>> expound a moment upon why "AR-15 toting dude" gives you the vapors  
>> and provide an instance or two of my attempts to "claim" him. Who  
>> knows, with enough breathless hyperbole, disjointed prose, and  
>> outright disregard for truthfulness you might just give the  
>> pedantic perfesser a run for his money!
>>
>> g
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Andreas Schou
>> To: the lockshop
>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:10 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 'Obama Tags' Called a Joke
>>
>> Gary --
>>
>> Incidentally, I'm more concerned about things like the AR-15-toting  
>> dude showing up to the Obama rally while refusing to disavow  
>> calling for Obama's assassination. Rex Rammel is a national joke  
>> who can't keep his mouth shut. This guy... less so. And,  
>> incidentally, Gary, since he's a member of the Libertarian party  
>> and a militia crank, I don't think he's "yours," except insofar as  
>> you try to keep claiming him.
>>
>> -- ACS
>>
>> For those of you that haven't seen the follow-up: http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/Tempe-pastor-reiterates-wish-for-President-Obamas/MX2Vzd4unEi9n8PschT50w.cspxu
>>
>>
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>> =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>               http://www.fsr.net
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>> =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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