[Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top Aviator
Andreas Schou
ophite at gmail.com
Thu May 21 18:41:27 PDT 2009
Bear --
Pedantry is one of my specialties. Please ignore me if I'm being pedantic.
-- ACS
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:42 PM, <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
>
> You're missing the point! 1.5 or 15 percent, DOESN'T MATTER, the issue is
> gay's in the military, not percentages or who came up with them - THAT
> doesn't matter! For arguments sake lets split the difference and call it
> somewhere between 1.5 and 10%.
>
> THE ISSUE is gays serving their country, NOT the statistics or how they
> were gathered or by whom!
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > On this issue, I'm going to side with Gary on the numbers. Kinsey had
> some
> > serious methodological issues, and as his fame (or, at the time, I guess
> > you'd have called it notoriety) grew, the number of respondents that
> > intentionally sought him out because they had a particular sociological
> > axe
> > to grind also grew. Exclusively gay and lesbian Americans are a
> relatively
> > small minority; a small minority that should not be denied any particular
> > rights any more than Laotian immigrants should be denied any particular
> > rights.
> >
> > -- ACS
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Funny. Your ursine pal quotes from the same study I cited (The Social
> >> Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States -
> >> Laumann,
> >> Gagnon, Michael, Michaels) as well as the hugely discredited Kinsey
> >> report
> >> in a failed attempt to bear up his spurious assertion of 10% of
> >> America's
> >> population being gay and yet you find my numbers...curious. Could it be
> >> that
> >> Yogi's numbers "look better" because they more closely match up with
> >> your
> >> preconceived notions?
> >>
> >> g
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Campbell" <
> >> philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> >> To: <bear at moscow.com>
> >> Cc: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; <bear at moscow.com>; "Tom
> >> Hansen"
> >> <thansen at moscow.com>; "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top Aviator
> >>
> >> > This looks better.
> >> >
> >> > The Crabtree information, including the citation, is in quotes,
> >> > indicating it was lifted from a website or whatever. I wonder where it
> >> > came from.
> >> >
> >> > You're right, though, Bear the percentage is irrelevant.
> >> > Discrimination is wrong regardless of the percentage. But the Crabtree
> >> > numbers are ... curious.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Joe Campbell
> >> >
> >> > On May 21, 2009, at 7:33 AM, bear at moscow.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I think we are trying to count how many angels can dance on the head
> >> >> of a
> >> >> pin, and depending on what study you use, the numbers vary.
> >> >>
> >> >> The bottom line is, they have a right to serve, let them!
> >> >>
> >> >> The average ratio from several studies are that 9.37% of men are
> >> >> homosexual and 4.87% of women are homosexual in the US. The Central
> >> >> Intelligence Agency estimates that there are 149,346,264 men and
> >> >> 154,478,382 women in the US which would statistically equate to
> >> >> 13,993,745
> >> >> gay men & 7,523,097 lesbians in the US for a total of just over 21.5
> >> >> Million.
> >> >>
> >> >> In 1995, a survey (The prevalence of homosexual behavior and
> >> >> attraction in
> >> >> the United States, the United Kingdom and France: Results of national
> >> >> population-based samples - Sell, Wells, and Wypij) reported 6.2% of
> >> >> males
> >> >> and 3.6% of females in the United States report having had sexual
> >> >> contact
> >> >> with someone of the same sex in the previous 5 years.
> >> >>
> >> >> A 1994 study (The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices
> >> >> in
> >> >> the United States - Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels) reported
> >> >> that the
> >> >> incidence rate of homosexual desire for men is 7.7% and 7.5% for
> >> >> women.
> >> >>
> >> >> A 1993 study (The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior - Janus and Janus)
> >> >> found
> >> >> 9% of men and 5% of women were involved in frequent or ongoing
> >> >> homosexual
> >> >> experiences.
> >> >>
> >> >> A 1990 study (Homosexuality/Heterosexuality by McWhirter, Sanders,
> >> and
> >> >> Reinisch) stated 13.95% of males and 4.25% of females had
> >> >> "extensive" or
> >> >> "more than incidental" homosexual experience.
> >> >>
> >> >> The Indiana University Kinsey Reports (Sexual Behavior in the Human
> >> >> Male -
> >> >> Kinsey, Pomeroy, and Martin/Sexual Behavior in the Human Female -
> >> >> Kinsey,
> >> >> Pomeroy, Martin, and Gerhard) reported 10% of males being more or
> >> less
> >> >> exclusively homosexual and 2% to 6% of females being more or less
> >> >> exclusively homosexual.
> >> >>
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >> ---
> >> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>
> >> >>> Where is this from?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Joe Campbell
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On May 21, 2009, at 6:14 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> "1.51% of the total U.S. population identifies themselves as gay,
> >> >>>> lesbian or bisexual, or 4.3 total million Americans. These numbers
> >> >>>> are based on figures provided by a broad-based coalition of gay
> >> >>>> rights organizations and homosexual advocacy groups. The primary
> >> >>>> source cited was the The National Health and Social Life Survey
> >> >>>> (NHSLS), published in the book The Social Organization of Sex:
> >> >>>> Sexual Practices in the United States (1994), by Laumann, Gagnon,
> >> >>>> Michael and Michaels. "
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> And,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "Referring to the Laumann study, the gay rights coalition stated
> >> >>>> that in the United States 2.8% of males age 18 or older, and 1.4%
> >> of
> >> >>>> females age 18 or older are homosexual, gay, lesbian or bisexual.
> >> We
> >> >>>> have applied their figures to the 2003 U.S. population (284,800,000
> >> >>>> total population, according to the U.S. Census Bureau). 0.9% of
> >> >>>> women identify themselves as lesbians (excluding bisexuals), which
> >> >>>> equates to 0.32% of total U.S. population being lesbians. 2 percent
> >> >>>> of men identify themselves as gay (excluding bisexuals), which
> >> >>>> equates to 0.7% of total U.S. population being gay men. Source:
> >> >>>> National study published in Laumann, et al., The Social
> >> Organization
> >> >>>> of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994)"
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> g
> >> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>> From: <bear at moscow.com>
> >> >>>> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >> >>>> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:21 PM
> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top Aviator
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Tom,
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Honestly the only way that we can put a number on it is based on
> >> >>>> the fact
> >> >>>>> that a nations military forces reflects the statistics of that
> >> >>>> nation. It
> >> >>>>> is estimated that about 10% of the US population is gay,
> >> >>>> therefore, it
> >> >>>>> safe to make the assumption that some where around 6,000 of those
> >> >>>> on the
> >> >>>>> Wall were gay (5, 819.5 for those of you out there doing the
> >> math).
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Even more interesting when you look at those numbers based on WW2
> >> >>>> troop
> >> >>>>> numbers, and really more revealing when you consider that there
> >> >>>> have been
> >> >>>>> 3,465 Medal of Honor winners, resulting in 346 gay Medal of Honor
> >> >>>> winners.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I had an old First Sergeant that used to tell our troops, that one
> >> >>>> in
> >> >>>>> three people in America has some sort of psychological problem. So
> >> >>>> in this
> >> >>>>> formation, look to your left, and look to your right, and if those
> >> >>>> two
> >> >>>>> guys look OK, it's YOU!
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> I have asked this question before, and it bears repeating again
> >> >>>> coupled
> >> >>>>>> with serious concern.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> There are 58,195 names on the Vietnam Memorial Wall.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> How many, would you estimate, belong to gay soldiers, sailors,
> >> >>>> airmen, and
> >> >>>>>> marines?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Pro patria,
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Tom Hansen
> >> >>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> "Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but
> >> >>>>>> the
> >> >>>>>> tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime."
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> -- Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> =======================================================
> >> >>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >> >>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >>>>>> =======================================================
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> =======================================================
> >> >>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >>>>> =======================================================
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>> =======================================================
> >> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >>>> =======================================================
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >>
> >
>
>
>
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