[Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top Aviator
bear at moscow.com
bear at moscow.com
Thu May 21 18:46:38 PDT 2009
Andreas,
Not a problem for me, but pedantry can also be an indication of certain
developmental disorders. In particular those with high-functioning autism,
often have behaviour characterized by pedantic speech.
Smiling Bear
> Bear --
>
> Pedantry is one of my specialties. Please ignore me if I'm being pedantic.
>
> -- ACS
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:42 PM, <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>>
>> You're missing the point! 1.5 or 15 percent, DOESN'T MATTER, the issue
>> is
>> gay's in the military, not percentages or who came up with them - THAT
>> doesn't matter! For arguments sake lets split the difference and call it
>> somewhere between 1.5 and 10%.
>>
>> THE ISSUE is gays serving their country, NOT the statistics or how they
>> were gathered or by whom!
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> > On this issue, I'm going to side with Gary on the numbers. Kinsey had
>> some
>> > serious methodological issues, and as his fame (or, at the time, I
>> guess
>> > you'd have called it notoriety) grew, the number of respondents that
>> > intentionally sought him out because they had a particular
>> sociological
>> > axe
>> > to grind also grew. Exclusively gay and lesbian Americans are a
>> relatively
>> > small minority; a small minority that should not be denied any
>> particular
>> > rights any more than Laotian immigrants should be denied any
>> particular
>> > rights.
>> >
>> > -- ACS
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Funny. Your ursine pal quotes from the same study I cited (The
>> Social
>> >> Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States -
>> >> Laumann,
>> >> Gagnon, Michael, Michaels) as well as the hugely discredited Kinsey
>> >> report
>> >> in a failed attempt to bear up his spurious assertion of 10% of
>> >> America's
>> >> population being gay and yet you find my numbers...curious. Could it
>> be
>> >> that
>> >> Yogi's numbers "look better" because they more closely match up with
>> >> your
>> >> preconceived notions?
>> >>
>> >> g
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Campbell" <
>> >> philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> >> To: <bear at moscow.com>
>> >> Cc: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; <bear at moscow.com>; "Tom
>> >> Hansen"
>> >> <thansen at moscow.com>; "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:02 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top Aviator
>> >>
>> >> > This looks better.
>> >> >
>> >> > The Crabtree information, including the citation, is in quotes,
>> >> > indicating it was lifted from a website or whatever. I wonder where
>> it
>> >> > came from.
>> >> >
>> >> > You're right, though, Bear the percentage is irrelevant.
>> >> > Discrimination is wrong regardless of the percentage. But the
>> Crabtree
>> >> > numbers are ... curious.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Joe Campbell
>> >> >
>> >> > On May 21, 2009, at 7:33 AM, bear at moscow.com wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think we are trying to count how many angels can dance on the
>> head
>> >> >> of a
>> >> >> pin, and depending on what study you use, the numbers vary.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The bottom line is, they have a right to serve, let them!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The average ratio from several studies are that 9.37% of men are
>> >> >> homosexual and 4.87% of women are homosexual in the US. The
>> Central
>> >> >> Intelligence Agency estimates that there are 149,346,264 men and
>> >> >> 154,478,382 women in the US which would statistically equate to
>> >> >> 13,993,745
>> >> >> gay men & 7,523,097 lesbians in the US for a total of just over
>> 21.5
>> >> >> Million.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In 1995, a survey (The prevalence of homosexual behavior and
>> >> >> attraction in
>> >> >> the United States, the United Kingdom and France: Results of
>> national
>> >> >> population-based samples - Sell, Wells, and Wypij) reported 6.2%
>> of
>> >> >> males
>> >> >> and 3.6% of females in the United States report having had sexual
>> >> >> contact
>> >> >> with someone of the same sex in the previous 5 years.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A 1994 study (The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual
>> Practices
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> the United States - Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels) reported
>> >> >> that the
>> >> >> incidence rate of homosexual desire for men is 7.7% and 7.5% for
>> >> >> women.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A 1993 study (The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior - Janus and
>> Janus)
>> >> >> found
>> >> >> 9% of men and 5% of women were involved in frequent or ongoing
>> >> >> homosexual
>> >> >> experiences.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A 1990 study (Homosexuality/Heterosexuality by McWhirter, Sanders,
>> >> and
>> >> >> Reinisch) stated 13.95% of males and 4.25% of females had
>> >> >> "extensive" or
>> >> >> "more than incidental" homosexual experience.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The Indiana University Kinsey Reports (Sexual Behavior in the
>> Human
>> >> >> Male -
>> >> >> Kinsey, Pomeroy, and Martin/Sexual Behavior in the Human Female -
>> >> >> Kinsey,
>> >> >> Pomeroy, Martin, and Gerhard) reported 10% of males being more or
>> >> less
>> >> >> exclusively homosexual and 2% to 6% of females being more or less
>> >> >> exclusively homosexual.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Where is this from?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Joe Campbell
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On May 21, 2009, at 6:14 AM, "g. crabtree"
>> <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> "1.51% of the total U.S. population identifies themselves as
>> gay,
>> >> >>>> lesbian or bisexual, or 4.3 total million Americans. These
>> numbers
>> >> >>>> are based on figures provided by a broad-based coalition of gay
>> >> >>>> rights organizations and homosexual advocacy groups. The primary
>> >> >>>> source cited was the The National Health and Social Life Survey
>> >> >>>> (NHSLS), published in the book The Social Organization of Sex:
>> >> >>>> Sexual Practices in the United States (1994), by Laumann,
>> Gagnon,
>> >> >>>> Michael and Michaels. "
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> And,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> "Referring to the Laumann study, the gay rights coalition stated
>> >> >>>> that in the United States 2.8% of males age 18 or older, and
>> 1.4%
>> >> of
>> >> >>>> females age 18 or older are homosexual, gay, lesbian or
>> bisexual.
>> >> We
>> >> >>>> have applied their figures to the 2003 U.S. population
>> (284,800,000
>> >> >>>> total population, according to the U.S. Census Bureau). 0.9% of
>> >> >>>> women identify themselves as lesbians (excluding bisexuals),
>> which
>> >> >>>> equates to 0.32% of total U.S. population being lesbians. 2
>> percent
>> >> >>>> of men identify themselves as gay (excluding bisexuals), which
>> >> >>>> equates to 0.7% of total U.S. population being gay men. Source:
>> >> >>>> National study published in Laumann, et al., The Social
>> >> Organization
>> >> >>>> of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994)"
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> g
>> >> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>>> From: <bear at moscow.com>
>> >> >>>> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> >> >>>> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:21 PM
>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top Aviator
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> Tom,
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Honestly the only way that we can put a number on it is based
>> on
>> >> >>>> the fact
>> >> >>>>> that a nations military forces reflects the statistics of that
>> >> >>>> nation. It
>> >> >>>>> is estimated that about 10% of the US population is gay,
>> >> >>>> therefore, it
>> >> >>>>> safe to make the assumption that some where around 6,000 of
>> those
>> >> >>>> on the
>> >> >>>>> Wall were gay (5, 819.5 for those of you out there doing the
>> >> math).
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Even more interesting when you look at those numbers based on
>> WW2
>> >> >>>> troop
>> >> >>>>> numbers, and really more revealing when you consider that there
>> >> >>>> have been
>> >> >>>>> 3,465 Medal of Honor winners, resulting in 346 gay Medal of
>> Honor
>> >> >>>> winners.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I had an old First Sergeant that used to tell our troops, that
>> one
>> >> >>>> in
>> >> >>>>> three people in America has some sort of psychological problem.
>> So
>> >> >>>> in this
>> >> >>>>> formation, look to your left, and look to your right, and if
>> those
>> >> >>>> two
>> >> >>>>> guys look OK, it's YOU!
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> I have asked this question before, and it bears repeating
>> again
>> >> >>>> coupled
>> >> >>>>>> with serious concern.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> There are 58,195 names on the Vietnam Memorial Wall.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> How many, would you estimate, belong to gay soldiers, sailors,
>> >> >>>> airmen, and
>> >> >>>>>> marines?
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Pro patria,
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Tom Hansen
>> >> >>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> "Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion
>> but
>> >> >>>>>> the
>> >> >>>>>> tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime."
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> -- Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> =======================================================
>> >> >>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> >>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> >>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> >>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> >>>>>> =======================================================
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> =======================================================
>> >> >>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> >>>>> =======================================================
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>> =======================================================
>> >> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> >>>> =======================================================
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> =======================================================
>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> =======================================================
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
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